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Knowing whether a verb is transitive/intransitive(?)

от Leke, 27 марта 2011 г.

Сообщений: 13

Язык: English

Leke (Показать профиль) 27 марта 2011 г., 17:08:10

Taken from Esperanto: A language for the global village...
For example, the verb boli is intransitive and only intransitive. You can say “La akvo bolas” (The water is boiling) but you cannot say “Mi bolas la akvon.”
Does anyone have any tips on how to remember or guess whether an Esperanto verb is transitive or intransitive?

The book then goes on to say that making a mistake like the one above is common, and is fairly well tolerated. How true is this in today's Esperanto community (both in frequency and tolerance)? Would you correct someone if they wrote something like this?

Thanks.

danielcg (Показать профиль) 27 марта 2011 г., 17:15:24

As far as I know, there is no way to tell if a verb is transitive or intransitive, without knowing its meaning.

Regards,

Daniel

Leke:Taken from Esperanto: A language for the global village...
For example, the verb boli is intransitive and only intransitive. You can say “La akvo bolas” (The water is boiling) but you cannot say “Mi bolas la akvon.”
Does anyone have any tips on how to remember or guess whether an Esperanto verb is transitive or intransitive?

The book then goes on to say that making a mistake like the one above is common, and is fairly well tolerated. How true is this in today's Esperanto community (both in frequency and tolerance)? Would you correct someone if they wrote something like this?

Thanks.

Miland (Показать профиль) 27 марта 2011 г., 17:15:37

Leke:Does anyone have any tips on how to remember or guess whether an Esperanto verb is transitive or intransitive?
Here's two lists of common transitive and intransitive verbs. I suggest that you study them well.

darkweasel (Показать профиль) 27 марта 2011 г., 17:22:54

I recommend to read this: Making things harder than they really are

Indeed the problem that you have does not actually exist if you use definitions of Esperanto verbs, not their (often ambiguous) equivalents in English.

sudanglo (Показать профиль) 27 марта 2011 г., 17:40:09

As regards tolerance, you should know that there have been several cases of early demise of congress attendees, which were hushed up as suicides, but which were actually cases of 'transitive rage' where a spertulo, unable to contain his fury at a beginner's mistakes, overstepped the mark.

erinja (Показать профиль) 27 марта 2011 г., 17:47:35

I always wondered why at the sites of Esperanto congresses, they always seemed to be digging new flowerbeds...

erinja (Показать профиль) 27 марта 2011 г., 17:56:30

Seriously, as regards the poll, if you correct every single bit of bad grammar you hear, you will be spending your entire time correcting people rather than listening to them. There's no shortage of fluent speakers of faulty Esperanto. So most of the time people don't go around correcting each other, unless a beginner specifically asks you to correct their errors, or unless a beginner is clearly interested in getting it right, then you might mention to them in passing at some point, "by the way, boli is only intransitive". There is usually one person in each active Esperanto group who has a reputation for going around correcting people all the time. This person is usually not liked very much, and thought of as a jerk.

The maximum that I will normally do is to answer the person but using correct grammar, or to work in a way to contribute to the conversation, but correctly. So if someone were to say "Mi bolas la akvon", I could say something like "Mia amiko eĉ ne kapablas boligi akvon!"

I correct beginners' lessons so I do spend a lot of time correcting grammar. When they write a personal note to me in Esperanto, attached to the lesson, I tend to correct that as well. But if they send me a personal message outside of the lessons, I don't correct the grammar unless they specifically asked me to.

It's not that it's "acceptable" to speak with incorrect grammar; it's more like, we choose to be polite to one another by not correcting each other constantly. It isn't acceptable to speak with poor English grammar, but I can't see myself going around correcting people all the time. Particularly if they are speaking English as a second language, you want to be sensitive and not make them feel bad.

Leke (Показать профиль) 28 марта 2011 г., 6:42:02

sudanglo:As regards tolerance, you should know that there have been several cases of early demise of congress attendees, which were hushed up as suicides, but which were actually cases of 'transitive rage' where a spertulo, unable to contain his fury at a beginner's mistakes, overstepped the mark.
I always knew Esperanto was a sinister cult lango.gif

Thanks for those links. I also enjoyed the article from the Esperanto USA site. The link was down for me, but I managed to get a cached version of it from google okulumo.gif

sudanglo (Показать профиль) 28 марта 2011 г., 12:10:20

Yes, the Esperanto USA article does a good job of stating how it is.

However, personally, I have always had a secret yearning to propagate 'Ni komenciĝu' with the meaning 'let's get started' (Ni iĝu komencaj) as opposed to 'Ni komencu', 'let's start'.

En la komenco Z kreis la lingvon, kaj Z vidis ke ĝi estas bona. Sed poste, la Esp-istoj komencis disputi inter si.

ceigered (Показать профиль) 28 марта 2011 г., 14:47:58

sudanglo:Yes, the Esperanto USA article does a good job of stating how it is.

However, personally, I have always had a secret yearning to propagate 'Ni komenciĝu' with the meaning 'let's get started' (Ni iĝu komencaj) as opposed to 'Ni komencu', 'let's start'.

En la komenco Z kreis la lingvon, kaj Z vidis ke ĝi estas bona. Sed poste, la Esp-istoj komencis disputi inter si.
Ooh, I like where this is headed!

Kaj estis inundo de la fiaj Idistoj, kiuj fiagas dum ĉirkaŭ 1360 monatoj. Do la anĝelo Zam diris al la homo Eĉei: konstruu retpaĝo por la Esperanta lingvo. Jen, Lernu!.

(Only two of every definition, one bonlingva, one neologisma, was allowed on the holy ark of Lernu!'s dictionary).

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