Sisu juurde

Scientology

kelle poolt ki4jgt, 30. märts 2011

Postitused: 37

Keel: English

ceigered (Näita profiili) 1. aprill 2011 0:33.01

I believe cult is the correct terminology as UUano said, since sect now chiefly is used to refer to break of religious movements, e.g. like those guys deep out in the bush of whatever country (I'm thinking US/AU, US because we all know crazy stuff goes on there, and AU because we all know crazy stuff goes on there), and have their own little compound preparing for the end of the world etc.

A cult according to Wikipedia:
"The word cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre"
Which, to the masses of the west, Scientology fits (sorry scientologists).

That said, scientologist doctrine ain't that crazy when you consider the religions of today, but we find it bizarre because it doesn't seem normal to us at all.

ki4jgt (Näita profiili) 1. aprill 2011 12:41.40

It really isn't that crazy. I mean, these are practices which have been used for years. The concepts used, are all part of human nature. They've been used in every major religion since the beginning of time (Just not all in the same one) The thing is, most religions actually try to tell the person they have to be better than their human nature. Scientology, tries to embrace it. (Which is good in a sense) but as stated by all other religions (Human nature is very fallible) In any sense, calling them a cult is merely reinforcing to them the idea that they are doing what's right. A lot of these people are looking for the answer to the question: Why does the world hate me? Scientology's answer: (Like most other religions) Because you're right!

So actually hating them, or their beliefs, makes them think they're right. (Though hate from the outside world is often a sign that you know something they don't, it doesn't mean what you know is right, it merely means that they are suspecting of you. You can be right or wrong at that point) The best way to deal with them, is as stated by so many other religions: You have to let them see the truth through you. I know it's hard, but turn the other cheek. (If you must protest, don't protest the religion, protest what the religion is doing wrong)

Because the person WAS right, before they joined the church. As for being right in the church, that highly depends on the person. But they still have a part of them which has some human value which people in the outside world tried to deny them. They (Knowing it was wrong to deny the humanity in themselves) turned elsewhere ie the church of scientology.

I can say that the books weren't for me though, Like I said, I was actually trying to figure out what the book was doing to my brain. When it said one thing on one page (Which made my brain act like XXX) the next page would say something else (Which made my brain turn to YYY) This was actually sending my brain in circles (Which is why the religion helps them) it sends focus here, then it sends the focus there. Which is the same concept used in brainwashing and some forms of child psychology. My IQ literally went from 133 to 70 in a matter of days. Life's experiences are to be learned from. The books were actually trying to get me to forget them.

As stated above though, if they choose that life style (I can not say a bad thing about it) It's their choice to live the way they want.

UUano (Näita profiili) 1. aprill 2011 16:01.07

UUano:
Altebrilas:In France, it is considered as a sect.
I think you mean "cult".
My comment was not intended to say anything about Scientology, but to clarify the stance of the French government toward it.

As a member of a religion which often gets this word slung at it, I hesitate to use it to describe the beliefs of others except in rare instances, and usually with the sociological sense of the word rather than the more popularly understood and pejorative meaning.

The end. sal.gif

Altebrilas (Näita profiili) 1. aprill 2011 19:04.45

UUano:
Altebrilas:In France, it is considered as a sect.
I think you mean "cult".
I don't fully master english, but I checked the dictionary:
en / fr / eo
cult=culte=kulto
sect=secte=sekto

It doesn't seem to be a false friend.

UUano (Näita profiili) 1. aprill 2011 19:30.10

Altebrilas:
UUano:
Altebrilas:In France, it is considered as a sect.
I think you mean "cult".
I don't fully master english, but I checked the dictionary:
en / fr / eo
cult=culte=kulto
sect=secte=sekto

It doesn't seem to be a false friend.
Non, ce ne sont pas de faux amis. Cependant, en anglais (tel qu'il se parle aujourd'hui), secte≠culte. Alors pour mieux décrire le point de vue du gouvernement français envers la Scientologie, il vaudrait mieux (à mon avis) se servir du mot «culte».

No, they aren't false friends. However, in modern popular English usage, sect≠cult. So to best describe how the French government views Scientology it would be better (IMO) to use the world "cult".

UUano (Näita profiili) 1. aprill 2011 19:31.28

Although, being a student of religion I don't use these words the way most people might use them, so I admit I could be totally wrong.

demando.gif

erinja (Näita profiili) 1. aprill 2011 19:41.03

The Merriam-Webster dictionary for learners of English defines the word "sect" as:
1 : a religious group that is a smaller part of a larger group and whose members all share similar beliefs (Buddhist sects, a sect of Judaism)
2 : a religious or political group that is connected to a larger group but that has beliefs that differ greatly from those of the main group (a fundamentalist Christian sect, radical Muslim sects)

The English word "sect" implies that this group is only a portion of a larger group, and that it distinguishes itself somehow with differences of belief. Since Scientology isn't an offshoot of anything, most people wouldn't call it a sect in English.

However in French, the word "secte" is defined differently. According to le-dictionnaire.com:

secte
* a group of people living (often in a community) under the influence of a spiritual guide
* a group of people professing the same religious, philosophical, etc. opinions
* a group of people strictly attached to a doctrine

... therefore I would not necessarily say that the English "sect" and the French "secte" are exact translations of one another. I think the French word has a broader meaning than the English.

erinja (Näita profiili) 1. aprill 2011 19:48.35

For completeness:
cult [M-w dictionary for learners of English]
1: a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous
2: a situation in which people admire and care about something or someone very much or too much
3: a small group of very devoted supporters or fans
4 formal: a system of religious beliefs and rituals

culte [le-dictionnaire.com]
1: ceremony, honor rendered to a god, to a divinity
2: religion by extension, in its practices, its offices
3: profound reverence given to a person
4: arousing the enthusiasm of a generation

--
It looks to me like French definiton 3 corresponds well with English definition 2, but the primary definition in English, number 1, is totally lacking in any of the French versions. Whereas French's number one definition is a distant fourth in English, used only in formal and academic settings.

So also in this case, cult culte, or better said, cult = culte only in a few select instances.

Beware of false friends.

Altebrilas (Näita profiili) 2. aprill 2011 2:28.25

UUano:Although, being a student of religion I don't use these words the way most people might use them, so I admit I could be totally wrong.

demando.gif
It's I who have to admit I am wrong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sect
In European languages other than English the corresponding words for "sect", such as secte (French), secta (Spanish), seita (Portuguese), sekta (Polish, Czech, Slovak, Croatian, Serbian), sekt (Danish, Norwegian, Swedish), sekte (Dutch), Sekte (German) or szekta (Hungarian), are used sometimes to refer to a harmful religious or political sect, similar to how English-speakers popularly use the word "cult". In France, since the 1970s, secte has a specific meaning which is very different from the English word.[12]
Thanks to Erinja for her explanations.

But this arouses a new question: how to translate secte/cult in esperanto?

Altebrilas (Näita profiili) 2. aprill 2011 2:49.01

It seems that "sekto" and "kulto" are synonyms for that meaning in wikipedia.
http://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sekto
http://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulto

But a search with Google shows that "sekto" is more frequently attested with that meaning.

Tagasi üles