Neither of those Wikipedia articles is wrong.

Zamenhof's 'universal religion' is a separate thing from Esperanto. It's called Hilelismo or Homaranismo, depending on which version of it you're talking about.

If I remember correctly, Zamenhof saw this "universal religion", not Esperanto, as being his true life's work. But Esperanto succeeded on a great scale compared to his universal religion, which has only a very few adherents today.

Esperanto is not a religion at all. It's not related to Hillelism or "Humanitism", but it does have a philosophy behind it, referred to as the "internal idea".

Look up Hilelismo or Homaranismo for more information on Zamenhof's development of a universal religion.

I was talking about "Philosophy" or "Religion" what is it defined as?
I didn't think Esperanto was a religion LOL. I don't think I could ever live my life by grammar rules Was he a theist or an atheist? aggressive or passive?

3rdblade skribis:

This should cover most of what you need.

http://www.scientology.org

ki4jgt:I was talking about "Philosophy" or "Religion" what is it defined as?

Neither; "it" (Esperanto) is an international auxiliary language.

ki4jgt:Was he a theist or an atheist?

He was a theist, as is evident from his Preĝo sub la verda standardo.

ki4jgt: aggressive or passive?

I'm not sure either adjective fits.

ki4jgt:I was talking about "Philosophy" or "Religion" what is it defined as?

Esperanto is not a philosophy or a religion. It is a language only.

However it has a philosophy associated with it, referred to as the "internal idea". It's the idea that things are more equal when you communicate with people from other countries using a neutral second language. The "internal idea" is a concept that many Esperanto speakers agree with, but it is optional (you can definitely be an Esperanto speaker who doesn't agree with that concept).

Zamenhof's religion of Homaranismo or Hilelismo is totally separate from the "interna ideo" of Esperanto. Many Esperanto speakers have never even heard of these religions (or philosophies, if you prefer to define them that way).

As an analogy (bear with me, here) the inventor of corn flakes was a Seventh Day Adventist who invented the corn flakes as a healthy, vegetarian breakfast for people who visited sanatoriums run by the Adventists. Corn flakes were therefore invented because of those Adventist beliefs, and they were invented because there was a need for something like that in the Adventist community.

Just because you like to eat corn flakes, doesn't mean you're an Adventist. Adventist beliefs inspired the invention of corn flakes, but enjoyment of corn flakes isn't limited to people who believe in the Seventh Day Adventist church, or to vegetarians for that matter. Everyone can enjoy corn flakes without agreeing with (or even knowing about!) the beliefs of the person who invented them, and the reason why they were invented.

...similarly, Zamenhof had certain religious or philosophical beliefs, and it was partially his belief in these concepts that inspired him to come up with Esperanto. However, Esperanto as a language is totally separate from Zamenhof's personal philosophy. You don't have to have the same philosophical or religious beliefs as Zamenhof in order use and enjoy Esperanto. Just as people enjoy corn flakes without believing in the Adventist church, many Esperantists are not aware of Zamenhof's belief in Homaranismo/Hilelismo, even though those philosophies inspired Zamenhof to create Esperanto.

Corn flakes are not the Seventh Day Adventist church. And Esperanto is not Hilelismo/Homaranismo.

erinja:qwertz, remember that a "sect" in English doesn't mean the same thing as "sekto" in Esperanto or other European languages.

Thanks erinja for that explanation efforts. I have no religion background or religion experiences. So, that's an quite interesting view. Thanks.

erinja:
But it would be good if we could keep our forum discussions to things relating to the culture and language of Esperanto. However I believe we have defined the Esperanto words "sekto" and "kulto" to everyone's satisfaction.

Good keyword. "Esperanto culture".

Btw. we have an Esperantist onsite who relates to the Bahai religion which seems in my opinion very open minded to other religions. (They offer worship services for several religions inside their own church. That's cool. At least the Australian one I visited nearby Sydney)

erinja:Going a bit off the Esperanto topic here, guys.

... but a word of advice, I had a relative who once went to some Scientology meeting and somehow got on their mailing list. It was decades ago but they still mail stuff to him. If you want some spiritual advice, Scientology wouldn't be where I would turn. But if you do decide to read their stuff etc., please don't give them your name or any of your contact information, because you don't want to be hearing from them forever.

Se oni volas eksteriĝi de la dissendolisto de la kulto, oni devus diri al ili, ke oni kredas nek je Ksenu nek je korpaj tetanoj, kaj ke oni neniam aĉetos je pli da kursoj aŭ libroj de la kulto. Mi iam aŭdis, ke tio funkcias.