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Mad at my publisher...changed Esperanto to French!

av philodice, 12 april 2011

Meddelanden: 81

Språk: English

erinja (Visa profilen) 13 april 2011 14:03:44

Wow. So if you had your fairies speaking some made-up fairy language, that you came up with yourself, would the publisher change that to French too?

And what if it was a science fiction novel with aliens speaking an alien language that you made up, would they change that to French as well?

French, the international intergalatic language.

patrik (Visa profilen) 13 april 2011 14:36:17

As an aspiring writer myself, I am outraged by such a decision!

@philodice: I would suggest that you look for another publisher who'll respect your rights as an author, if nothing prohibits you to do so.

Continuum (Visa profilen) 13 april 2011 15:16:38

erinja:And what if it was a science fiction novel with aliens speaking an alien language that you made up, would they change that to French as well?

French, the international intergalatic language.
Hahaha yeeesss! It will be funny!! rido.gif

Altebrilas (Visa profilen) 13 april 2011 15:50:44

It looks like a typical anti-esperanto attack. Since the Ido crisis, the adversaries of eo act like that.

What you should know is:
- WHO told him to do that
and:
- WHY he didn't ask you before doing it

darkweasel (Visa profilen) 13 april 2011 15:58:58

geo63:
3rdblade:Speaking of French, here's this. Just to cheer you up. okulumo.gif
It is just that the English expect that the whole world understands them, which is not necessarily true...
I have observed it many times here in Poland - if they started a conversation with Polish "dzien dobry" (have a good day) and not with their "hello", then they certainly would receive more attention. Poland is Polish country and you can't expect that everyone in the street will speak English for you... sal.gif We don't use English at everyday basis, so most of us are not fluent...
However, you also need to take into account the fact that if you hear someone saying dzien dobry, you'll suppose that they will understand if you talk to them in Polish. Which might not be the case. And for the foreigner, it may be somewhat embarassing if they have to explain, afterwards, that they did not at all understand anything they were told. I can understand people who speak English but not Polish if they greet with hello so that the Polish person immediately notices that speaking Polish to this foreigner will be of no use.

I did the same thing last week in Italy. My Italian doesn't reach much further than un gelato, per favore, but I didn't even use this. I ordered one ice cream, please so that my conversation partner immediately understood that they should not answer me in Italian - I wouldn't have understood it anyway.

To illustrate this, which of the following dialogues is less troublesome for the German speaking conversation partner?

English-language tourist with barely any German skills: Guten Abend!
German speaker: Guten Abend, kann ich Ihnen helfen?
tourist: ???

or the following?

tourist: Good evening!
German speaker: Good evening, can I help you?
[...]

and even if the German speaker doesn't speak any English, it's just:

tourist: Good evening!
German speaker: ???
... and the tourist leaves and just looks for someone who does speak English.

geo63 (Visa profilen) 13 april 2011 16:35:59

darkweasel:However, you also need to take into account the fact that if you hear someone saying dzien dobry, you'll suppose that they will understand if you talk to them in Polish.
No way. Polish is that difficult that I will almost immediatelly recognise a foreigner. But these words do create a bridge of understanding - the one took some effort to learn at least a few words in my language, then I will help him. What would you do if someone in your country will speak to you in chinese expecting that you understand him? It is very wise to learn a few sentences when going to a foreign country - just in case. Crying "help" may not help you since it does't mean anything useful in Polish. But if you cry "pomocy" then everybody is alarmed at once. But most English visitors to Poland don't bother to learn any Polish word. And this is what I don't like at all.
I was in China several times and I learned a little Chinese - the attidude of the locals was entirely different when I spoke to them in my broken Chinese to when I spoke to them in English. They knew that Chinese was difficult for foreigners and they appreciated that I had learnt a few their words.

jeg (Visa profilen) 13 april 2011 16:51:37

darkweasel:
To illustrate this, which of the following dialogues is less troublesome for the German speaking conversation partner?

English-language tourist with barely any German skills: Guten Abend!
German speaker: Guten Abend, kann ich Ihnen helfen?
tourist: ???

or the following?

tourist: Good evening!
German speaker: Good evening, can I help you?
[...]

and even if the German speaker doesn't speak any English, it's just:

tourist: Good evening!
German speaker: ???
... and the tourist leaves and just looks for someone who does speak English.
I've been pondering this a lot lately.

I'm potentially traveling to a non-English speaking country in a few months (yes, for the first time), and I know that expecting to achieve even conversational fluency in their language by then is frankly impossible (especially in the absence of time, resources, and long-term need), so I wonder if I'm doing my future self more harm than good by trying to learn bits and pieces of it.

darkweasel (Visa profilen) 13 april 2011 16:56:21

geo63:
darkweasel:However, you also need to take into account the fact that if you hear someone saying dzien dobry, you'll suppose that they will understand if you talk to them in Polish.
No way. Polish is that difficult that I will almost immediatelly recognise a foreigner.
Maybe. However, not all languages are that difficult, and not for all foreigners - imagine, as an extreme example, a Spaniard speaking Italian, or the other way round.

geo63: But these words do create a bridge of understanding - the one took some effort to learn at least a few words in my language, then I will help him. What would you do if someone in your country will speak to you in chinese expecting that you understand him?
I would signal that I do not understand them. Nothing else. If they learned a few words in German and use them on me, the conversation won't be better - in fact, I may start talking in German to the foreigner just to find out that they didn't understand a word, so that the whole conversation was, in the end of the day, a waste of time. A waste of more time than if the foreigner had talked to me in Chinese from the beginning onwards - in that case, I could have signalled immediately that I do not understand their words.

geo63: It is very wise to learn a few sentences when going to a foreign country - just in case. Crying "help" may not help you since it does't mean anything useful in Polish. But if you cry "pomocy" then everybody is alarmed at once.
If I hear someone cry in a loud voice, I'm alarmed and will check what is happening (at least for a second) regardless of what they cried, and in which language. This really is not a very good example.

geo63: But most English visitors to Poland don't bother to learn any Polish word. And this is what I don't like at all.
Yes, I can understand that. When I was in Italy, I also finished conversations with salespersons with grazie, arrivederci even though I had talked in English before. However, I did not want people to be disappointed when they talked a lot of Italian to me which I would not understand.

geo63 (Visa profilen) 13 april 2011 18:11:48

jeg:I'm potentially traveling to a non-English speaking country in a few months (yes, for the first time), and I know that expecting to achieve even conversational fluency in their language by then is frankly impossible (especially in the absence of time, resources, and long-term need), so I wonder if I'm doing my future self more harm than good by trying to learn bits and pieces of it.
A few months is more than enough to learn a few useful words for a foreign country. These are:

greetings
food: bread, water
police
help
I am American, do not kill me (might be vital)

erinja (Visa profilen) 13 april 2011 18:19:52

What's the problem with the good old standby, asking in the local language if someone speaks English? [even in the "broken" local language]

I'm pretty sure that if you needed help in Poland and you went up to someone and said "Dzien dobry....angielski???", they would understand that you wanted to know if you could talk to them in English.

Don't sweat it too much with learning a local language, as a tourist. You'd be surprised at how far a pocket dictionary can get you. And being a native English speaker gives you a massive advantage. Even though most people don't speak English worldwide, many people consider English to be the international language, and unless you go way off the beaten path, most tourist information centres should have an English speaker, and most large hotels should as well. And also, don't worry about "messing up" your language learning by learning only a few bits and pieces. Bits and pieces get you a long way in terms of goodwill with the locals, so it's never wasted time (or harmful to your future language acquisition)

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