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Mad at my publisher...changed Esperanto to French!

от philodice, 12 апреля 2011 г.

Сообщений: 81

Язык: English

geo63 (Показать профиль) 13 апреля 2011 г., 18:22:02

darkweasel:
geo63: It is very wise to learn a few sentences when going to a foreign country - just in case. Crying "help" may not help you since it does't mean anything useful in Polish. But if you cry "pomocy" then everybody is alarmed at once.
If I hear someone cry in a loud voice, I'm alarmed and will check what is happening (at least for a second) regardless of what they cried, and in which language. This really is not a very good example.
You perhaps would do that, but I was once almost robbed when in China. I could shout "police, please help me" as loud as I could - only attracting other people to look at me. No one would help. But instead I cried "警察，幫助" and the situation was solved very quickly.

And it is only natural to be polite to other people in their own country and to greet them in their own language, isn't it. For instance, you may say:
"Dzien dobry. Do you speak English?"
"Guten Tag, ich spreche Deutsch nicht. Do you speak English?" (actually I do speak German)

erinja (Показать профиль) 13 апреля 2011 г., 19:11:39

geo63:I am American, do not kill me (might be vital)
Wow, I'm not sure that I would say this. I would worry that they WOULD kill me if they thought I was American.

geo63:You perhaps would do that, but I was once almost robbed when in China. I could shout "police, please help me" as loud as I could - only attracting other people to look at me. No one would help. But instead I cried "警察，幫助" and the situation was solved very quickly.
But you didn't actually try yelling in English, so in fact, you don't know what would have happened. I think that a generic "AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!" would help, no language needed.

I think that even if I knew the local words for "Help, police" I would probably forget them if I were being robbed.

In the US, if I heard someone scream on the street, I would certainly look to make sure the person was ok, even if they didn't scream in English.

danielcg (Показать профиль) 13 апреля 2011 г., 19:29:51

If there's any other Argentine in this forum, doesn't this remind you of "No me peguen, soy Giordano"? ("Do not beat me, I'm Giordano", a phrase pronounced by a famous hairdresser when a gang was running onto him after a football match; needless to say, they hit him the same or even more)

Now back to your phrase: If the fact that you are obviously a human being does not deter them from killing you, why would it matter that you are American?

Or are you suggesting that Americans have more right to life than other human beings?

Regards,

Daniel

geo63:
I am American, do not kill me (might be vital)

erinja (Показать профиль) 13 апреля 2011 г., 20:00:41

danielcg:Or are you suggesting that Americans have more right to life than other human beings?
I think that he thinks that someone wouldn't want to cause a diplomatic incident by killing a foreigner.

...but in my opinion, there's a reason why some Americans in Europe like to put a Canadian flag on their backpacks. Some people don't like Americans because they disagree with the actions of the American government. Some people think that all Americans are rich, so they think they could get a lot of money by taking an American hostage. So I definitely wouldn't go down the street in a foreign country shouting that I'm an American.

In fact I have always felt a measure of protection with speaking Esperanto abroad. Someone is unable to identify what country I come from, just by looking at me or listening to me, therefore they are unable to make any assumptions about me or my beliefs.

T0dd (Показать профиль) 13 апреля 2011 г., 22:01:22

For my part, I always try to learn a few basic expressions in the language of the country I'm visiting. Basic greetings, courtesy, and "Do you speak English" don't take that long to learn. In addition, it's good to know how to say something along the lines of "very nice". So often, American go into shops, browse around, and then leave without uttering a word. They (we) are unaware that in many places this is seen as extremely rude, because they have been conditioned by the experience of large shopping malls and other stores staffed by people who are utterly uninterested until it's time to ring something up.

I think it's just abrasive to be in a non-anglophone country and just start speaking English. The only real exception I've found in Amsterdam, where not only does it seem that everybody speaks English very well, but they also speak it with each other quite often. Many, many times I'd hear people at a nearby cafe table speaking Dutch, then switching into English for a bit, then back to Dutch, then English. I found this astonishing. It was as if they would lose track of which language they were using, so each one would just follow the lead of the other one.

jeg (Показать профиль) 13 апреля 2011 г., 22:16:39

Perhaps that came off too strong. Of course I'd try to learn as much of the local language as possible and not assume people speak English, and would expect others to do the same. In fact, I imagine that's half the fun of traveling! (Then again, I have an undergrad degree in linguistics and speak passable Esperanto, so obviously find languages interesting.)

I was just pondering the communication hiccups it could (but not necessarily would) cause.

philodice (Показать профиль) 13 апреля 2011 г., 22:59:54

I just don't know why they would do this. I'm trying to get in touch with the resposible party. So far I've been assured that at the worste, we can publish a special edition with the EO intact.
I did in fact use Fairies from a French story in a modern setting...Melusine, Undine, and others. Maybe the editor thought I was just really bad at speaking French and 'corrected' me at the last minute.

3rdblade (Показать профиль) 13 апреля 2011 г., 23:12:39

The publisher has the right to change parts of a manuscript, which is fair enough, as it's their money they are using to publish the book and get it distributed, and if they think EO is gonna hurt their sales or whatever, they might want to change it. Asking Ren's permission would have resulted in a 'No way!', so the clandestine option was prefereable from their point of view.

Having a right to change a manuscript doesn't mean that a publisher should, especially without telling, or that many do! Doing something like this without informing the author is not going to create goodwill. Famous writers can have a clause in their contract reading 'not one word shall be changed,' etc, but not the rest of us. Raymond Carver, before he got famous, was heavily redacted, for example, and I've even heard Jane Austin got it too. It happens in other media as well.

Tidalias (Показать профиль) 14 апреля 2011 г., 0:04:06

One possibility that occurs to me is the fact that the publisher may consider itself unable to properly proofread and fact check exactly what the printed Esperanto dialogue translates to. Not so with French, as getting in touch with a French proofreader would be much easier for them, in their mind.

I can see how they would want a language which can be verified easily on their part. Not a great reason, since there are (to my knowledge) a number of credible EO translators they could consult with minimal effort. And of course, since they've at least assured you that a special EO edition may be printed, I could be far off the mark.

I do really hope you get it sorted out in the end to some satisfactory agreement or another.

geo63 (Показать профиль) 14 апреля 2011 г., 5:35:04

erinja:In the US, if I heard someone scream on the street, I would certainly look to make sure the person was ok, even if they didn't scream in English.
Yes, you are a good person, but not all are like you. Do you remember what happend to Polish citizen, Robert Dziekanski, who did not speak English, walked for hours in the Vancouver Airport and in the end was killed like a rat by the police, because they could not understand him. Here is the whole story:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/s...

And all this happened in a civilized country...as Canada claims to be. Of course I do not blame the Canadians for that, it's just an incident with narrow-minded police officers, but nevertheless it is the fact, that one can get killed just because he or she doesn't speak English/Arabic/Spanish/your vote/ good enough. If poor Mr Dziekanski could say: I am Polish, do not kill me - he would probably live with his mother up till now.

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