Meldinger: 116
Språk: English
NJ Esperantist (Å vise profilen) 2011 4 19 17:01:08
3rdblade:Can we... turn 'dekstra' into a verb and just say "Dekstr(iĝ)u post 300 metroj."?Or maybe we could avoid the whole problem by using 'iri (mal)dekstren' for 'turn' and 'iremi (mal)dekstren' for 'bear'?
I'm mentioning this mostly for the sake of discussion and can't really say if that would be clearer/unclearer than 'turnu'.
Unfortunately though, 'iremi' would surprise me until I got accustomed to it.
horsto (Å vise profilen) 2011 4 19 23:08:31
ursu vin dekstren.
or perhaps:
nasku dekstren
NJ Esperantist (Å vise profilen) 2011 4 20 01:12:56
horsto:I looked up the various meanings of bear: Se Esperanto estus kiel la angla vi eble povus diri:Tre helpema!
ursu vin dekstren.
or perhaps:
nasku dekstren
sudanglo (Å vise profilen) 2011 4 20 11:43:38
But a wider point is worth making. There are many areas where there is just not enough usage to determine what is a good or bad Esperanto termino. Given the backgrounds of the contributors speaking different mother tongues, then I think their decision on some term or other which can't be clearly established from usage is highly valuable.
But in the case of ĝiri, I am truly surprised that so many posters in this forum have not come across its use in the wider meaning - which does not seem to me unrelated to its narrower meaning in connection with redirection of sums of money.
I will continue to use such expressions as ĝir-lampo and danĝera ĝirejo without expecting to be accused of an Italismo or a Hispanismo.
NJ, is there a way of generating a sound file of the other language terms? We have enough multilingual talent in the forum to transcribe this to text form.
horsto (Å vise profilen) 2011 4 20 12:06:53
NJ Esperantist:Pardonon! But I am of the same opinion as tommjames, we don't really need a new word.
Tre helpema!
In german the translation would be:
Tenu vin dekstre.
But perphaps the following is better understandable:
Iru kiel eble plej dekstre.
or perhaps even:
iru dekstre (without -n).
ceigered (Å vise profilen) 2011 4 20 12:42:53
sudanglo:But in the case of ĝiri, I am truly surprised that so many posters in this forum have not come across its use in the wider meaning - which does not seem to me unrelated to its narrower meaning in connection with redirection of sums of money.I wanna ask - what's the reason why a word like "ĝiri" is used for "endorsing checks" (this usage is in italian too as I mentioned in my coded message before). I can get the "transfer" part, since that's like "turning money over", but is that what endorsing a check is like? "turning in the check"? Otherwise the ideas of signing checks and turning ones body/vehicle seem a little far apart!
I will continue to use such expressions as ĝir-lampo and danĝera ĝirejo without expecting to be accused of an Italismo or a Hispanismo.
T0dd (Å vise profilen) 2011 4 20 13:24:50
sudanglo:Prior to this discussion, I would have understood a ĝirejo to be perhaps one of those check-cashing places that one finds in urban areas.
I will continue to use such expressions as ĝir-lampo and danĝera ĝirejo without expecting to be accused of an Italismo or a Hispanismo.
I don't know NPIV's editorial philosophy about such things. I wouldn't expect the Akademio, however, ever to officialize this meaning. The conceptual link between transpagi and iom turniĝi is just too tenuous not to count as a lexical collision.
Miland (Å vise profilen) 2011 4 20 14:05:54
erinja:I would expect that if you were to look up "ri" in PIV, you would find it.I just checked. The word ri is not in PIV 2005.
erinja (Å vise profilen) 2011 4 20 14:13:48
sudanglo:I can't agree with your low opinion of NPIV Erinja. One has only to look a the 3-page list of reviziantoj and the number of fakoj covered to see that this dictionary is not just one man's view of the language.The point of PIV is to include "all of the words". And it does include "all of the words". It accomplishes its purpose very well. But just because a word is in PIV doesn't mean we should use it. I am told that PIV doesn't even mark "dubious" words as being dubious, but I don't own a copy so I can't check [perhaps someone could look up i]estiel[/i] to see if it's marked in any way as being 'evitinda'].
Someone uses the word with this meaning? Sure, let's throw it in! The fact that they have many contributors surely means that they have many different fields of study and regions from the world, from which they can draw dubious definitions (and then put them in the dictionary and not mark them as being dubious and rare).
sudanglo:I will continue to use such expressions as ĝir-lampo and danĝera ĝirejo without expecting to be accused of an Italismo or a Hispanismo.You can do whatever you want. But since I disagree, if I ever have occasion to discuss a "danĝera ĝirejo", I will surely be referring to a shop-front money transfer business in a crime-ridden section of the inner city.
A ĝirlampo must be an indicator light that tells me that my wire transfer has gone through. Helpful!
ceigered:I wanna ask - what's the reason why a word like "ĝiri" is used for "endorsing checks"When you endorse a check, you transfer 'ownership' of the check, either to yourself or to another person.
There are two ways to endorse a check. One is to sign it over to another person. This has happened to me before. My friend receives a check while visiting me. My friend wants to cash the check, but my friend's bank doesn't have a branch in my town. My friend endorses the check to me (signs the check in a special way to transfer ownership of the check to me). I cash the check and give the cash to my friend. So it's like a paper wire transfer, from my friend to me.
The other kind of endorsing a check is endorsing it for yourself. You give me a check to pay me for a service. I sign the check and give it to the bank, and the bank transfers the money into my account. Your writing on the check, plus my signing of the check, were used to transfer the money from you to me.
tommjames (Å vise profilen) 2011 4 20 14:25:00