訊息: 21
語言: English
erinja (顯示個人資料) 2011年4月29日下午9:28:59
To me, "president debate" gives a different idea in English than "presidential debate", and so, too, in Esperanto, "prezident[o]debato" gives a different idea than "prezidenta debato".
It's hard to explain but for example a perfume store (parfumvendejo) might be different than a perfumey store (parfuma vendejo). In the first case, the store obviously sells perfumes. In the second case, the store might smell very good (it is perfumed) but they might not actually sell perfume.
Context matters. But to me prezidenta debato is more obviously "a debate regarding the presidency", whereas prezidentodebato seems (to me) to mean "a debate between presidents". There's no Esperanto rule that tells me this but that's what my lingvosento says.
ceigered (顯示個人資料) 2011年4月30日上午8:06:29
Why wouldn't a prezidentdebato be a presidential debate?
sudanglo (顯示個人資料) 2011年4月30日上午11:36:42
For example, in what way could a busa haltejo not be a bushaltejo. There doesn't seem to be any way that a haltejo could be 'busa' without it being a bus stop.
In the case of a librovendejo, a certain puzzlement arises if it is referred to as libra vendejo - what does it mean to describe a vendejo as 'libra'.
To describe a debato as 'prezidenta' could cover a number of things because there are different things in the world we might label as 'prezidenta'.
It could be a debate about the presidency (should we have one, or stick with the King, or who should we choose) or a debate between Presidents (or Presidential candidates).
It's a little vague.
ceigered (顯示個人資料) 2011年4月30日下午12:51:55
sudanglo:For example, in what way could a busa haltejo not be a bushaltejo. There doesn't seem to be any way that a haltejo could be 'busa' without it being a bus stop.Slightly digressing but "busa halto" on the other hand... I can see that working to describe how an American car stops as opposed to one of those small german smart car thingies.
I struggled with "libra vendejo", but had an idea of a store where you sign what you want into a book and wait around for service, sort of like a primitive version of taking a number from a little computer at a bank. So not very useful I guess
Miland (顯示個人資料) 2011年4月30日下午4:30:06
darkweasel:Page 38 has a "Listo de la signoj uzataj en la vortaro", which says that the sign = (used in the article about prezidento) "montras preferindan formon".Dankon; I have edited my message accordingly.
darkweasel:Uh? The third meaning of prezidanto is exactly a head of state.My point is that prezidanto could mean someone chairing a meeting, as well as a head of state, which is why the expression prezidanta debato is ambiguous in theory (though I think it would be understood in practice). Prezidento is less ambiguous; it is not likely that prezidenta debato would be misunderstood.
Miland (顯示個人資料) 2011年4月30日下午7:13:40
darkweasel:I never said "prezidanta debato" was correct.I didn't say you did, though in my view the expression would be understood in practice. My point was that prezidanta debato is ambiguous in a way that prezidenta debato would not be.
Mustelvulpo (顯示個人資料) 2011年5月2日上午3:21:32
henma (顯示個人資料) 2011年5月2日上午5:59:06
Mustelvulpo:It seems to me that when we speak of a "presidential debate" we usually are referring to a debate not between presidents but between presidential candidates. I don't think that "prezidentdebato" clearly carries that meaning into Esperanto. To clarify this, I would say "debato de (inter) prezidentaj kandidatoj," which is too long to intelligibly reduce to a compound.Prezidentkandidatdebato? (
)Amike
Daniel.
sudanglo (顯示個人資料) 2011年5月2日上午10:56:43
The Alzheimer's is so bad now, I can't recall how that was referred to in the media. We might have purloined the American expression 'Presidential debate' or said 'Presidential-style debate'.
I'm not at all sure if we referred to it as the Leaders debate, or the Prime-Ministerial debate, or the Candidates' debate. Perhaps someone here remembers.
Of course for ultra clarity you can say 'La debato inter la prezidentaj kandidatoj' for an American election presidential debate.
But if we had newspapers and radio and TV in Esperantujo covering the American elections, this would almost certainly get shortened to Prezidenta debato.