Slu/Sal'

I don't understand everything at this video(5/5). So, could you help me to clarify how David (University of California, San Diego) defines that esperanteskaĵo in detail? Is it raŭmismstile or finvenkismstile? The regarding presentation sheet also is specified at video (4/5) (5:30 min continuing)

"Ekzistas agnosko de Certa Grado de Mojoseco ĉe Esperanto (aŭ almenaŭ ĉe esperanteskaĵo)"

"Firma kredo je la Ekzisto de Monda Kulturo (super ĉio rokmuzika)"

... and Hiphopo etc. Nice to hear someones own estimation through another person. Anyway, I would call music an Universal Culture.

ĝp,

I enjoyed all of the videos in this series. Thanks for mentioning them!

"Ekzistas agnosko de Certa Grado de Mojoseco ĉe Esperanto (aŭ almenaŭ ĉe esperanteskaĵo)"

When I listened to Professor Jordan's lecture, I didn't hear him mention a precise connection between "mojoseco" and "esperanteskaĵoj", so I was also a little bit confused at first. However, after listening to the entire lecture, I concluded that the professor believes that students have discovered reasons to become involved in Esperanto which lie outside of the "traditional" movement. The professor describes these non-traditional motivations as "esperanteskaj"; i.e. Esperanto-like, but not really Esperanto (maybe "esperantecaj" would be a better word?) These motivations are acknowledgements of "mojoseco" to the professor only because the students are members of "youth culture", and the professor is much older (like me), so he put them all under the title "mojoseco".

"Firma kredo je la Ekzisto de Monda Kulturo (super ĉio rokmuzika)"

After mentioning "esperanteskaĵoj", all of Professor Jordan's supporting examples had the theme of "English Domination". I concluded that his students did NOT support the concept of a world-wide culture. Instead, these students were trying to preserve their own culture by studying Esperanto to fight against English domination. Is this clearly Raumist? I don't know.

NOTE: I am a mid-level Esperantist. I had never seen nor heard the ending "-eska" until I viewed the video mentioned in this thread. Was the instructor just playing word games by inventing this ending; e.g. Esperantizing the English ending "-esque", meaning similar in form or style, or did I miss an Esperanto lesson somewhere?

-esk- is an unofficial suffix meaning -esque.

I agree with you that "esperanteca" is a preferable form of the word, with the noun version "esperantecaĵoj"

Biguglydave (although I shall refer to you as dave ), I found your comments interesting about the idea of using Esperanto to preserve ones culture and fight against an invading foreign culture. It's an interesting thing, since if Eo becomes the world language, will that continue to be usable in such a role or will it become a vector for this invasive foreign culture assimilation? (and is that necessarily bad, do we have to stay "unique" to "keep" our culture, or is sharing it with the world and making it everyone's culture better? Perhaps united states history can provide some insight due to the mixed european groups there)

Interesting stuff.

biguglydave:I enjoyed all of the videos in this series. Thanks for mentioning them!

"Ekzistas agnosko de Certa Grado de Mojoseco ĉe Esperanto (aŭ almenaŭ ĉe esperanteskaĵo)"

When I listened to Professor Jordan's lecture, I didn't hear him mention a precise connection between "mojoseco" and "esperanteskaĵoj", so I was also a little bit confused at first. However, after listening to the entire lecture, I concluded that the professor believes that students have discovered reasons to become involved in Esperanto which lie outside of the "traditional" movement.

For me personaly it was very shocking to see how "traditional" E-o movement at some Youtube videos is celebrated like that Internacia Brigado propaganda ambiance, which reminds me somewhat to some propaganda ambience I experienced personaly.

biguglydave:
The professor describes these non-traditional motivations as "esperanteskaj"; i.e. Esperanto-like, but not really Esperanto (maybe "esperantecaj" would be a better word?) These motivations are acknowledgements of "mojoseco" to the professor only because the students are members of "youth culture", and the professor is much older (like me), so he put them all under the title "mojoseco".

My reason to join Esperanto community was excisting E-o music. Mainly created by Vinilkosmo. After finding out that there is excisting just a very small asset of contemporary E-o music I try to support that music field. In my opinion the E-o community doesn't know their music by themselves what is a very sad situation. I believe the easyness of today's music media distribution gives today's people all ages the possibility to accquire or better finding interests at other culture ideas. I.e. how to explain Gypsy culture/mentality? First step could be an Gypsy music concert.

In my opinion music styles are culture, too. Every music style has a typical "base mood" and lot's of try to convey an idea. If someones decide to live inside a overwhelming music cloud they need orientation which often comes with that "coolness/mojoseco" markers.

"Firma kredo je la Ekzisto de Monda Kulturo (super ĉio rokmuzika)"

biguglydave:
I concluded that his students did NOT support the concept of a world-wide culture.

Hhm, I'm not very good in understanding the speech of Jordan's lecture completly. But I'm still the opinion, that "music styles are world culture" because music styles don't stop at any state border. They spread worldwide. I.e. if you would ask people from different parts of the the world who never have had the possiblity to talk to each other they probably would tell you quite similar things about the character of i.e. Jazz, Chanson, Salsa, Hip Hop, Reggae etc. Okay I can just verify that for the Hip Hop music style. But I believe it's the same situation for other music styles. So for me, music "styles" are world culture.

biguglydave:
Instead, these students were trying to preserve their own culture by studying Esperanto to fight against English domination. Is this clearly Raumist? I don't know.

Yes, I aggree. Fighting against the current society system is still quite popular. I mean, learning Esperanto makes something more sensible for what you called "English domination". But I believe English can also support the survival of local languages. I.e. for organizing culture festivals across Europe etc. International organisation teams need at least one bridge language.

Laŭ mi, the biggest problem with cultures and languages spreading across the world is that people don't want to lose their own, and don't appreciate any changes in culture.

It's the fight between integration and isolation. Both are sort of needed at a personal level (e.g. you need to have a sense of self). And indeed, families, tribes, clans, communities, regions, and countries probably need some sense of self as it's beneficial at an organisational level. But I don't think it should take over. It shouldn't rule over us, like it currently does (nationalism, patriotism, etc). Because then it's a misplaced belief, effectively idolism.

At the same time integration is a tool, not a way to rule ourselves. It's good to be integrated at a national level, and I guess I could be called an internationalist. But to worship integration and efficiency as some sort of solution to the world can be dangerous, as then society could just become a world-wide cultureless workforce that does nothing but strive for efficiency.

So, balance is definitely needed. I think we should cultivate what we have, and share it with others, and allow them to cultivate it in their own way.

Like wine. A type of wine might be pioneered in France, but then we Australians might take it and create a new style based off of it.

So anyway, balance, not letting ourselves get ruled by any one ideology, inovation and avoiding stagnation I think are important to the development of culture.

qwertz:
My reason to join Esperanto community was excisting E-o music. Mainly created by Vinilkosmo. After finding out that there is excisting just a very small asset of contemporary E-o music I try to support that music field. In my opinion the E-o community doesn't know their music by themselves what is a very sad situation.

I didn't know about the richness of Esperanto music before I started to learn the language, but I'm very impressed. I first learned about the musical side of Esepranto from Radio Verda. They used to feature a different artist for every episode.

By the way, I never listened to a lot of hip-hop or rap in English, because I frankly couldn't understand the words. I can actually understand the Esperanto artists, so I'm more interested in their music. I have a lot of music from Vinilkosmo and they accept Pay-Pal, which makes international purchases easier.

Also, I agree with you that culture and music are strongly linked, but I'm not ready to declare any genre to be a world-wide genre, although rock may indeed come closest.

biguglydave:

qwertz:
My reason to join Esperanto community was excisting E-o music. Mainly created by Vinilkosmo. After finding out that there is excisting just a very small asset of contemporary E-o music I try to support that music field. In my opinion the E-o community doesn't know their music by themselves what is a very sad situation.

biguglydave:
I didn't know about the richness of Esperanto music before I started to learn the language, but I'm very impressed. I first learned about the musical side of Esepranto from Radio Verda. They used to feature a different artist for every episode.

Varsovia Vento ankaŭ tries to push contemporary E-o music. And the new editor of Kontakto(Roger) is a musican, too.

biguglydave:
By the way, I never listened to a lot of hip-hop or rap in English, because I frankly couldn't understand the words. I can actually understand the Esperanto artists, so I'm more interested in their music. I have a lot of music from Vinilkosmo and they accept Pay-Pal, which makes international purchases easier.

Yes, of course, musicstyle are kind of taste. Personally I'm full of expectation which way esperantlingva Hiphopo genre will go. I.e. if it will walkaround that stupic Gangsta thing and if Esperanto language will pass "E-o-Slang-word-bullet-proof test" and what "E-o Hiphopuloj has to say".

Some legal distributed excamples can be found at hiphopesperanto.blogspot.com An new HHK2 is upcoming and will be anounced at Vinilkosmo's Ipernity account.

biguglydave:
Also, I agree with you that culture and music are strongly linked, but I'm not ready to declare any genre to be a world-wide genre, although rock may indeed come closest.

[/quote]No, for sure. Every genre can spread the Esperanto language. Not just a special one.

biguglydave:
Also, I agree with you that culture and music are strongly linked, but I'm not ready to declare any genre to be a world-wide genre, although rock may indeed come closest.

I found, to my surprise, that Irish Traditional Music (ITM) has a genuinely worldwide following. If you browse around on YouTube, you'll find videos of people playing it on tin whistles, fiddles, concertinas, from all corners of the world.