Съобщения: 29
Език: English
ceigered (Покажи профила) 05 май 2011, 10:26:02
sudanglo:But Ceiger, 'Shit' in English and 'Merde' in French, and 'Scheisse' in German are precisely ways of saying 'This is not good'.You seem to have misinterpreted my comment - I was basically saying that "poop/dung/shit (sorry kids, it's for the greater good of science)/faeces/etc" works in any language. The meaning of "poo" is sort of universal, no? Ergo, fek is good.
'Fek' in Esperanto belongs to the same register, and is not a term limited to medical use like 'faeces' (in my experience).
Kako for me using the dictionary comes up as "New Zealand Kaka/Kākā (Nestor meridionalis; a parrot endemic to the forests of New Zealand), which is a bit funny, since "kaki" means "feki". I now want to see if those parrots can be trained to speak, to teach it to say "Mi kakas".
@ Chainy, I think I like the grey area status. I don't want to have to go "oh wait, can't call a woman an "ulo" since it's the wrong term"
. "Guy" here can also be used to refer to women, but only in plural or in 3rd person, e.g. it wouldn't be used as a term of address. This is despite the fact that we differentiate between guys and girls/chicks for informal genders... confusing. Lads and lasses works much better 
sudanglo (Покажи профила) 05 май 2011, 13:30:14
Still, the whole question of what register 'Fek' belongs to is an interesting one.
NPIV marks 'Kaki' as familiara, as it does 'Merdo' (in the case of the latter it evens expands the definition to include 'malbonegaĵo'), but 'Feki' is not so marked.
If I had to order the three roots in terms of rudeness, I would not be sure how to do that.
Perhaps 'Fek' leans more to neutrality than I thought. My impression is however that I have come across it as an expletive.
I don't what you are going to say for the New Zealand parrot since both kaki and kakao are occupied - probably some variation of its Latin name.
Donniedillon (Покажи профила) 05 май 2011, 14:05:20
Example 1
"Man! Did you just see that crazy thing that just happened?!?"
In this case "Man!" could very suitably be translated as Ho! or Jen! or Ve!
Example 2
"How ya doin, man?"
In this case i would probably go with ulo, viro, amiko, frato, etc. (could Fratĉjo = brotha
)Example 3
"That man just ran over my cat."
In this case a simple viro would do nicely.
It is easy to get caught up in trying to translate colloquialisms literally, but it seldom works out well. Just go with the wide variety of descriptive terms that EO already has to offer
Chainy (Покажи профила) 05 май 2011, 14:26:04
Donniedillon:In English "man" is used in a couple of ways, both of which already have suitable EO translations IMHO.You could be right on all those, but my thoughts would be:
Example 1
"Man! Did you just see that crazy thing that just happened?!?"
In this case "Man!" could very suitably be translated as Ho! or Jen! or Ve!
Example 2
"How ya doin, man?"
In this case i would probably go with ulo, viro, amiko, frato, etc. (could Fratĉjo = brotha
Example 3
"That man just ran over my cat."
In this case a simple viro would do nicely.
1. Maybe not 'jen' for the first example.
2. In the second example, I think 'amiko' fits best. Adding 'ulo' and 'viro' to the end of such a sentence sounds a little random/weird in Esperanto, well at least to me.
3. Yes, 'viro' is just fine.
Donniedillon:You're absolutely right there.
It is easy to get caught up in trying to translate colloquialisms literally, but it seldom works out well.
Kraughne (Покажи профила) 05 май 2011, 19:20:24
kaha:I use "ulĉjo" and "ulnjo"Great minds translate alike. I thought of those terms a few days ago when I was also going through ceigered's dilemma. Those words are perfect; there's really nothing else in Esperanto that captures the essence of "man," "dude," "bro," etc. in English. And if you're a native speaker of English, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
ceigered (Покажи профила) 06 май 2011, 06:48:57
sudanglo:Oh dear! I must have got crosseyed reading your post, Ceiger, and hallucinated a 'not', where there was not one.No problem, I keep on missing the word "not" when reading/listening
Still, the whole question of what register 'Fek' belongs to is an interesting one.I agree... Fek is the most common and well known one, but the problem with putting it on same level as other swear words in other languages is that Esperanto aims for neutrality and cultural exchange, and "being rude" doesn't quite work with that... If merdo is common enough perhaps that can be at a level above fek in expletive-impact
Otherwise, there might be the option of using national language swear words. I've heard the English "f*ck" in other languages a lot more than I'd expect, maybe thanks to the exportation of RnB, rap, most adultish forms of western music etc. And I reckon many are familiar with "scheiss(e?)" (can't spell it, but I know what it sort of sounds like!)
I don't what you are going to say for the New Zealand parrot since both kaki and kakao are occupied - probably some variation of its Latin name.Considering I've never heard of it until now in English, maybe it's one of those words you can get away with having a doublet of...
erinja (Покажи профила) 06 май 2011, 11:24:55
But "Fek!" is most definitely an expletive. It isn't neutral or "softened" the way it would be if you were to shout "Poo!" in English.
However, "feki" is still an appropriate word to say in polite company, insofar as it's polite to talk about poo in polite company. In informal company with friends, you could say "Ho fek! La feko likis de la vindotuko de la bebo!" (Oh sh_t! The poo leaked from the baby's diaper/nappy!)
In more polite company (hence no profanities), you might say instead "Ve, feko likis de la vindotuko de la bebo!")
"Fek'" would be understood as a profanity, feko/feki would be understood as feces/to defecate. This has been my observation anyway.
ceigered (Покажи профила) 07 май 2011, 05:15:00
only
"How dare you use the noun for faeces in vain!"
sudanglo (Покажи профила) 07 май 2011, 08:58:07
At first sight this seems very strange, but there is an example in French, where changing the word class makes an innocuous word into an impolite one.
Un 'baiser' is a normal word for a kiss. But 'baiser' the verb is altogether malĝentila.
I agree too, that it seems much more likely to hear 'Fek!' than 'Merdo!'