I would like to highlight this passage (presented by geo63 at polish forum also):

geo63:Look at the aims of raumists - they are extremely wise and up to date.

I would read your comments about this manifest with pleasure.

I've read about 'raŭmismo' a few times, but I don't really get the point of such a theory, especially when a very strange, perhaps even rather dodgy organisation resulted from this, namely the Esperanta Civito. This group is truly mad, the members even give themselves titles as if they are some kind of state, they have a 'court', 'parliament' etc and it's all pretty much run by one man, Giorgio Silfer (aka. Valerio Ari). This man denounces those that disagree on his website, HeKo - even goes so far to excomunicate them, naming them 'persona non grata'.

On the other hand, perhaps we can be glad that this Esperanta Civito exists, as they provide good laughs on a regular basis. I just hope that non-Esperantists don't get to hear about them as it's rather embarrassing.

Chainy:I've read about 'raŭmismo' a few times, but I don't really get the point of such a theory, especially when a very strange, perhaps even rather dodgy organisation resulted from this, namely the Esperanta Civito. This group is truly mad, the members even give themselves titles as if they are some kind of state, they have a 'court', 'parliament' etc and it's all pretty much run by one man, Giorgio Silfer (aka. Valerio Ari). This man denounces those that disagree on his website, HeKo - even goes so far to excomunicate them, naming them 'persona non grata'.

On the other hand, perhaps we can be glad that this Esperanta Civito exists, as they provide good laughs on a regular basis. I just hope that non-Esperantists don't get to hear about them as it's rather embarrassing.

Dont judge the idea by its biased followers. The aims of raumists are not to create some sort of an esperanto country. In short:

1. Esperanto will not become the global auxilary language - so no need to waste our efforts for that matter.

2. We do not fight English language, we do not care if people are using English. It's their choice.

3. Esperanto is interesting as it is, with its international culture, literature and people. We will develope this culture and the language, because it is worth of that. Our aim is to make esperanto better, not to make the world better, which is unrealistic.

Chainy:--message deleted, and if anyone sets up a thread on this issue in Esperanto then I will explain why!--

I value your posts so I did this. Now you can explain why.

geo63:Dont judge the idea by its biased followers. The aims of raumists are not to create some sort of an esperanto country. In short:

1. Esperanto will not become the global auxilary language - so no need to waste our efforts for that matter.

2. We do not fight English language, we do not care if people are using English. It's their choice.

3. Esperanto is interesting as it is, with its international culture, literature and people. We will develope this culture and the language, because it is worth of that. Our aim is to make esperanto better, not to make the world better, which is unrealistic.

Ok, fair enough. But that's hardly ground-breaking stuff is it?! Non-raŭmists would agree entirely with points 2 and 3, so what's the big deal?! Why the fancy name?

And regarding point 1 - well, who cares? On a day-to-day basis, it makes no difference to anything. Whether you are a raŭmist or not, we just get along using Esperanto. I would say, though, that an overly zealous desire to spread Esperanto is not too good for the health as it will only ever lead to intense frustration and bizarre behaviour as it is naturally a slow process. And yet an equally zealous 'raŭmist' still pretty much wants the same thing, ie. for the number of Esperanto speakers to continue to grow. So what's the disagreement?! Secretly, I think most of us stand in the middle ground on this one - after all, we follow common sense!

In any case, I think we'd all find this discussion a lot more productive in the Esperanto-language forum.

In any case, I think we'd all find this discussion a lot more productive in the Esperanto-language forum.

here you can find this thread in esperanto

Chainy:

qwertz:No, YOU spread turbocharged attacking atmosphere at this thread. And the sad thing is that you probably can not self-reflect your behaviour yourselves. I only did encounter such turbocharged behaviour in Italy. But Italians get relaxed after some time. YOU obviously not. Drink a red-wine, that let you cool down quite good.

qwertz, you seem to be a little confused. I'm not the one desperately and rather comically using bold capital letters. I'm sorry that I've hit such a nerve. You could do well to take some of your own advice, just make sure it's quite a few big gulps of that wine.

Bla, bla. I'm full aware, kamerado.

Chainy:
Take a deep breath and look at what was said in this thread. Everyone...

What?! Make your own opinion and don't hide inside the Everyone-crowd-cloud!

Chainy:
... was agreed on the matter until Ceigered kicked off with his rambling comments, and then you ably supported him.

Generalizations and speaking in the name of everybody can be offending. Should be base education knowing that, isn't?

I'm really sick of individualism-minded people like you who give a f* at, if their comments can hurt or not. Switching other people into "object-mode" is such offending to collegiality-minded people. Probably no problem to you individualism-minded people. Yes, I know, that's really no problem for you individualism-minded. Really not. But "putting fellows into object-mode" is such offending to collegiality-minded folks you hopefully/espere understand sometimes. You talk about Esperanto community? Movement?! Pah! Every collegiality-minded learns collegiality at Kindergarten level and below (Kindergrippe). It's nothing to talk about. Definitly not. That's a base of collegiality-minded people and not a aim, individualism-folks.

And yes, I see it a problem of international community, too. Individualism-minded vs. collegiality-minded people.

Yes, that was my last comment to this and I will not "disturb" further disscussion.

In this thread: people flamewarring about nothing.

geo63:
3. Unlikely - people will get wiser and choose esperanto for their international communication. This is not to happen. The history shows us that the dominant language was always the language of some superpower. Esperanto is unsuported. I think, that our goal as esperantist should be not fina venko. Look at the aims of raumists - they are extremely wise and up to date.

I recommend hearing the statements of Arika Okrent because that. She did categories they current era the Entertainment Era where Lingvo Internacia ideas will have no chance to spread. Really interesting talking.

paulopolo:

Chainy:--message deleted, and if anyone sets up a thread on this issue in Esperanto then I will explain why!--

I value your posts so I did this. Now you can explain why.

Can be found here