Linguists and esperanto
by Altebrilas, May 24, 2011
Messages: 216
Language: English
Altebrilas (User's profile) May 24, 2011, 9:34:39 AM
Does anybody know if somewhere is a compilation of opinions of linguists about esperanto?
Thanks a lot if you can help me.
Miland (User's profile) May 24, 2011, 10:22:41 AM
At World Congresses, there is an Internacia Kongresa Universitato where many of the lectures are about linguistic issues, so you might find something there.
ceigered (User's profile) May 24, 2011, 11:57:22 AM
omid17 (User's profile) May 24, 2011, 12:33:05 PM
ceigered (User's profile) May 24, 2011, 12:56:14 PM
omid17:Some linguists vehemently dismiss EO. Most notable remark is made by Chomsky who has gone so far as saying that Esperanto is not a languageUnfortunately, he's very respected in the field of linguistics, so we just have to put up with such silliness until he's no longer as influential
Kirilo81 (User's profile) May 24, 2011, 2:02:35 PM
I'm saying this as a linguist, by the way.
ceigered (User's profile) May 24, 2011, 2:14:54 PM
Kirilo81:so their opinions don't give more insight than anyone's else ones (else's??)"So their opinions don't give (any)more insight than anyone else's", I believe. Else apparently seems to act as an adjectival modifier to "anyone", so the 's just comes at the end of the whole lot, or so I just read 1 second ago.
Altebrilas (User's profile) May 24, 2011, 2:47:03 PM
Concerning Chomsky, does he have his own definition of "language" and claims that esperanto don't fall in its scope, or is it just a subjective opinion?
It is known that Chomsky has redefined some linguistic terms like grammar, anaphor, etc. and it may be the case for language.
razlem (User's profile) May 24, 2011, 2:59:59 PM
Kirilo81:most linguists don't know anything about planned languagesHow so?
(anyone else's)
omid17 (User's profile) May 24, 2011, 3:22:35 PM
He is looking at the matter through his own theory (That grammatical rules are hardwired to the brain and that's why all the natural languages share a single universal grammar.) He says that we are yet to understand human mind and how it functions and therefore we don't fully "know" any languages. So the claim that the language X is preplanned and fully known is meaningless. Building a language from scratch without knowing what one is talking about is absurd. He goes on to claim that esperanto is simply a codification on national languages and doesn't separately exist as a language. Here's his own words (as found in the net):
The interest of linguists, as linguists, in universal language was based on an illusion, which linguists had but no longer have. That was the illusion that Esperanto is a language, and it isn’t. Yeah, Esperanto has a couple of hints that people who know language can use based on their own linguistic knowledge to make a language out of it, but nobody can tell you what the rules of Esperanto are. If they could tell you that, they could tell you what the rules of Spanish are, and that turns out to be an extremely hard problem, a hard problem of the sciences, to find out what’s really in the head of a Spanish speaker that enables them
to speak and understand and think the way they do.
That’s a problem at the edge of science. I mean, a Spanish speaker knows it intuitively, but that doesn’t help. I mean, a desert ant knows how to navigate, but that doesn’t help the insect scientist. [...] To be puzzled by simple questions is a very hard step, and it’s the first step in science, really. And the same is true about the nature of Esperanto, or Spanish, on which it’s based, and so on. We don’t know the answers to the questions of what the principles of Esperanto do because if we did, we would know the answer to how language works, and that’s much harder than knowing how a desert ant navigates, which is hard enough. So, now it is understood that Esperanto is not a language. It’s just parasitic on other languages. Then comes a question, which is not a linguistic question, but a question of practical utility. Is it more efficient to teach people a system which is parasitic on actual languages, and somewhat simplifies, eliminating some of the details of actual historical languages; or is just more efficient to have then a whole lot of languages. And I think it’s now pretty widely accepted that the latter is better and not hard.