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Esperanto Quirks

od EldanarLambetur, 26. maj 2011

Sporočila: 12

Jezik: English

EldanarLambetur (Prikaži profil) 26. maj 2011 22:41:15

Hello!

I recently started learning Esperanto. And the more I learn, the more little interesting aspects of it I find. I've been getting more excited about its features, and in order to not estrange my friends by constantly talking about it, I started a blog, "Adventures in Esperanto", to talk about all the little interesting things I come across.

An example is the use of accusative 'n' for disambiguation in a sentence like "I like fishes more than cats". I.e. is it "I like fishes more than cats (like fishes)" or is it "I like fishes more than (I like) cats"?

Or another example being verb forms of adjectives instead of resorting to using "to be". In other words, using "ĝi bluas" instead of "ĝi estas blua" for "It is blue".

I'm writing this message, because I'm curious to learn more of Esperanto's neat little quirks, and wondered if any of you would like to share your knowledge of them! Since I've enjoyed learning new features and talking about them! Thanks!

henma (Prikaži profil) 26. maj 2011 22:50:36

EldanarLambetur:I'm writing this message, because I'm curious to learn more of Esperanto's neat little quirks, and wondered if any of you would like to share your knowledge of them! Thanks!
It's great to see people learning with so much enthusiasm.

Talking about strange usage of the -n, a common example:

li trovis la vinon bona
li trovis la vinon bonan

In the first one, you are saying that he found that the wine is good. In the second one, you are saying that he found the good wine.

Amike,

Daniel.

geo63 (Prikaži profil) 27. maj 2011 05:39:54

EldanarLambetur:Hello!
...Or another example being verb forms of adjectives instead of resorting to using "to be". In other words, using "ĝi bluas" instead of "ĝi estas blua" for "It is blue".
In Esperanto there are no verbs, no adjectives, no substantives as such. There are only roots and endings you can attach to roots to form different meanings. So:

blua = blu + a - adjectival form of a root
blui = blu + i - verbal form
bluo = blu + o - substantival form
blue = blu + e - adverbial form

blu - the idea of blue

The roots can have adjectival/substantival/verbal flavor though. If the root is adjectival, then the verb created by adding -i/as/is/os/us means: to be that of. Blu is adjectival so

ĝi bluas = it is blue - more exactly: it is in state of being blue

But other roots can be verbal, they reffer to an action of doing something:

mov - the action of moving

so

ĝi movas = it moves
ĝi estas mova = it is animated

This feature of esperanto makes it so versatile.

3rdblade (Prikaži profil) 27. maj 2011 06:10:35

I find the 'kaj - kaj' rule quirky, sensible but odd at first blush:

Mi ŝatas manĝi kaj viandon kaj legomojn. "I like to eat both meat and vegetables."

'Aŭ - aŭ' functions similarly, as 'either - or'. eg. Nun ni devas aŭ venki aŭ morti!

Where's your blog? I see no linky.

geo63 (Prikaži profil) 27. maj 2011 06:46:29

3rdblade:I find the 'kaj - kaj' rule quirky, sensible but odd at first blush:

Mi ŝatas manĝi kaj viandon kaj legomojn. "I like to eat both meat and vegetables."

'Aŭ - aŭ' functions similarly, as 'either - or'. eg. Nun ni devas aŭ venki aŭ morti!

Where's your blog? I see no linky.
It is odd only for an English. Such constructs exist in other languages, namely in Polish:

Lubię jeść i mięso i jarzyny
mi ŝatas manĝi kaj viandon kaj legomojn.

albo ... albo...
aŭ ... aŭ...

Teraz musimy albo zwyciężyć, albo umrzeć!
Nun ni devas aŭ venki aŭ morti!

So for me it is English that is quirky a lot, not Esperanto.

Kirilo81 (Prikaži profil) 27. maj 2011 07:23:07

geo63:
3rdblade:I find the 'kaj - kaj' rule quirky, sensible but odd at first blush:

Mi ŝatas manĝi kaj viandon kaj legomojn. "I like to eat both meat and vegetables."

'Aŭ - aŭ' functions similarly, as 'either - or'. eg. Nun ni devas aŭ venki aŭ morti!

Where's your blog? I see no linky.
It is odd only for an English. Such constructs exist in other languages, namely in Polish:
Yes, it's common in fairly every old Indo-European language, too, e.g. Greek, Latin, Hittite...

geo63 (Prikaži profil) 27. maj 2011 07:45:54

henma:Talking about strange usage of the -n, a common example:

li trovis la vinon bona
li trovis la vinon bonan

In the first one, you are saying that he found that the wine is good. In the second one, you are saying that he found the good wine.

Amike,

Daniel.
It is not strange at all. It is a shortage:

li trovis la vinon [ke ĝi estas] bona

sudanglo (Prikaži profil) 27. maj 2011 10:36:03

What you are discovering is Esperanto's power to disambiguate sentences in English.

Another example of where the accusative serves to disambiguate would be:

'Mi elektis lin kiel sekretario de la asocio' and 'Mi elektis lin kiel seketarion de la asocio'. (In English: I chose him as secretary of the association - to be the secretary, or in my capacity as secretary?)

Have you learnt yet how Esperanto handles 'I saw him walking to the station'? Were you walking, or was he walking?

Miland (Prikaži profil) 27. maj 2011 11:28:49

sudanglo:'Mi elektis lin kiel sekretario de la asocio' and 'Mi elektis lin kiel seketarion de la asocio'. (In English: I chose him as secretary of the association - to be the secretary, or in my capacity as secretary?)
The use of kiel complicates matters. Mi elektis lin sekretario would be "I chose him (to be) secretary)", but Mi elektis lin kiel sekretario would be "I chose him in my capacity as secretary" (see PMEG, first two examples in box). Mi elektis lin kiel sekretarion in my view could be "I chose him as I would choose a secretary (see PMEG, last example in box).

erinja (Prikaži profil) 27. maj 2011 12:30:31

I have seem some indications online that "or...or..." was used in an older form of English, though we use "either...or..." today.

A tad off-topic but I could have sworn that in the first episode of Doctor Who that had Matt Smith playing the Doctor, in one of the scenes where Amy Pond is still a child, she prays (to Santa Claus, if I remember right!) that someone will come and fix the crack in her wall. As I recall she says something like "So please could you send someone to fix it. Or a policeman, or ..." [then we hear the TARDIS noise]

I remember thinking to myself at the time, I wonder if that's a Scottish usage. I know that the northern dialects of English in the UK tend to conserve linguistic forms that have been lost in the south, and I wondered at the time if "or...or..." is a Scottish usage that is leftover from an older form of English.

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