Сообщений: 105
Язык: English
typhlocaris (Показать профиль) 18 июня 2011 г., 15:57:21
Years ago when my social phobia was stronger I used the interaction through forums such as real-life learning. A laboratory. Soon I bumped into that people do not like touching taboos. You can not tell you do not feel anything and that death is an option. When a person says he has cancer. And other people take pity on them. I did not understand because you have to use emoticons.
In real life, is worse. Because there is not a option to EDIT comments. People can be seen as offense the most trivial. And for my own survival, I MUST NOT SAY that social rules are interpreted differently for me. So when you understand as a pejorative use stereotypes, I understand it as "hypothesis" that I test in my models. Models that can be run or not. But I always get positive feedback. That's what I need to keep learning. Sometimes I think that behaving this way by forum, people might think I'm a troll. I am not. Worse. I am abnormal person in a normal world.
There are many inequalities about skin color, weight, height, mobility differences. And "mental" are not to be taken into account. I guess at least 100 years in progressive countries.
Hugs to all.
geo63 (Показать профиль) 18 июня 2011 г., 18:30:19
henma:... and I have never seen anybody else being mistreated for having a poor English...I was several times... So let's do not generalize.
ceigered (Показать профиль) 19 июня 2011 г., 4:48:33
), there's always some people who find foreigners speaking their language silly 
(so I just make a note never to speak to them in their own language, even if they ask 
(I'd just say "sorry, I can't speak it well enough!", which is true, but normally I'd like to try anyway haha)). 
henma (Показать профиль) 19 июня 2011 г., 5:34:17
geo63:It's not the same, Geo... I have seen several misunderstandings... And even long discussions... But I have not seen that anybody insulted you saying that your English is bad or something similar.henma:... and I have never seen anybody else being mistreated for having a poor English...I was several times... So let's do not generalize.
By the way... your English is pretty good... The discussions have been, 'laŭ mi', more because of cultural differences that have led to people feeling insulted, when there was no bad intention.
Amike,
Daniel.
geo63 (Показать профиль) 19 июня 2011 г., 7:30:40
henma:The discussions have been, 'laŭ mi', more because of cultural differences that have led to people feeling insulted, when there was no bad intention.Never mind - I didn't take it seriously (I mean - I was not offended, I only felt sad for them). And it is very sad when you try to explain yourself and to present your point of view, and they say that you attack them. That is strange and really worth of investigation. In English discussions the English usually take over, even if they are not right.
Altebrilas (Показать профиль) 19 июня 2011 г., 8:11:03
That is one of the reasons I am esperantist.
sudanglo (Показать профиль) 19 июня 2011 г., 8:38:51
After all one of the principal arguments for Esperanto is supposed to be that it puts everybody on an equal footing removing the 'advantage' of native speakers in putting across their point of view.
Obviously, when answering basic questions about the language from beginners, it would be unreasonable to answer in Esperanto beyond their ability in the language. But so many of the discussions in this Forum are not about such questions.
Otherwise, there seems to something slightly ridiculous in banning Esperanto in an Esperantist forum.
Also, I don't see why we shouldn't allow a mixture of English and Esperanto in the English language Forum to allow beginners to take their first steps in expressing their point of view in Esperanto before their command of the language has reached an advanced level.
For example: Mi konscias ke tio kion mi diris supre estas 'off-topic', sed 'I trust' ke oni min pardonos. 'I have been learning' Esperanton nur kelkajn tagojn.
geo63 (Показать профиль) 19 июня 2011 г., 8:45:54
sudanglo: Mi konscias ke tio kion mi diris supre estas 'off-topic', sed 'I trust' ke oni min pardonos. 'I have been learning' Esperanton nur kelkajn tagojn.
Only after a short while I noticed it was a mixture of English and esperanto - perhaps because they both are foreign to me and I see them at the same level of consciousness.And as for banning esperanto here - I find it ridiculous too. Most of the users understand esperanto well enough (not so true for English {language of course - just in case I was not understood}).
erinja (Показать профиль) 19 июня 2011 г., 16:25:52
No one is banned from writing Esperanto messages in the English forum. HOWEVER they must include a translation in English. This sounds reasonable to me, because this forum is, indeed, the English forum.
If you would like to have discussions in Esperanto only, with no translations, perfect! There is a place for that. It is called the Esperanto forum. We have eight Esperanto-only forums here at lernu.
We have one English forum at lernu. It is intended to help English-speaking beginners. I refuse to require the beginners to reach a certain level of Esperanto before they are able to understand the conversations in this forum - which is for them.
They can't go to Google Translate to translate the parts that they couldn't understand.
If it is too difficult for you to write an English translation to accompany your Esperanto post in this forum, then please go and participate in the Esperanto forums instead.
There have been complaints that the Esperanto forums don't have such interesting discussions. Perhaps this is because people are posting their Esperanto-only messages in the English forum, rather than in the Esperanto forum where they belong.
RiotNrrd (Показать профиль) 19 июня 2011 г., 20:04:32
Every forum at Lernu has a single language associated with it. Eight of them are Esperanto, and a... let's say a whole bunch... are the individual national languages. The general rule could be expressed as: within any forum, if you write something in an out-of-forum-language, you need to add a translation in the forum-language.
This seems entirely reasonable to me, regardless of whether we are talking about English, German, Chinese, Slovakian, Esperanto, or so on.
Part of the problem I see here are nonbeginners still using English as the International Language, when they should be using Esperanto.
The English forum really is for beginners. Beginners, and anyone who wants to talk to beginners, are, of course, welcome here. But if you're not a beginner, and you want to have a conversation above and beyond typical beginner stuff, why are you posting in the English forum? You aren't a beginner anymore! You actually CAN converse in Esperanto. So go do it!
