ceigered:Thus, @Henma, I don't think it'd be bad to promote the use of some Esperanto here in the national language forums as it sort of acts like a "docking system" between the national language forums and the EO forums, allowing people to go between easier without having to "step outside" (I'm thinking of a space-analogy )

I am not against promoting (some) Esperanto in the forum. The rules don't forbid writing in Esperanto in the forums (as long as they are translated to the language of the forum or are part of an example or explanation).

I think it is even allowed to start a thread as a game, or a contest in which everyone is encouraged to write in Esperanto (as the threads started by sudanglo, the translation competitions he started are indeed interesting for medium to high levels of Esperanto).

What I don't think as correct is the fact that some threads here are not related to learning Esperanto, which is the purpose of the national language forums... to help people which doesn't know enough Esperanto to become better at it.

In fact, in several of these threads, people which contribute are not beginners... all the people discussing this now can discuss in any Esperanto forum (and I know that geo, sudanglo, altebrilas, and some others here write normally in the Esperanto forums too).

So, why do we keep starting and promoting this kind of threads in the English forum, instead of using the Esperanto forums for this. Let's use the English forum for native beginners, which need it more than we, who can discuss in Esperanto.

Amike,

Daniel.

In the english forum, I can't communicate with non english-speaking people. In esperanto forum, I can't communicate with beginners about the topics that interest me. In french forum, it's worse. I didn't even try the other language's because I'm not fluent enough.

Is there any young polish ophtalmologist who can find a solution to this problem?

By the way, a list of false friends (in a "pragmatics" sense) like "may" would be useful. It could be also a good argument in favor of esperanto.

Altebrilas:By the way, a list of false friends (in a "pragmatics" sense) like "may" would be useful. It could be also a good argument in favor of esperanto.

If one uses English everyday, then it is fine - he eventually gets used to it. But if one uses it only from time to time - he is doomed. Esperanto is just the opposite. But the world turns towards English, not esperanto - that is the real tragedy. I think the future will be even worse with Chinese to come...

sudanglo:...

Otherwise, there seems to something slightly ridiculous in banning Esperanto in an Esperantist forum.

Also, I don't see why we shouldn't allow a mixture of English and Esperanto in the English language Forum to allow beginners to take their first steps in expressing their point of view in Esperanto before their command of the language has reached an advanced level.

For example: Mi konscias ke tio kion mi diris supre estas 'off-topic', sed 'I trust' ke oni min pardonos. 'I have been learning' Esperanton nur kelkajn tagojn.

It seems to me a good idea. People with better knowledge of esperanto would be pleased to help beginners in translating missing parts.

I would propose to use braces { } instead of quotes to avoid ambiguity.

Mi konscias ke tio kion mi diris supre estas {off-topic}, sed {I trust} ke oni min pardonos. {I have been learning} Esperanton nur kelkajn tagojn.

Here is an exemple of translation with comments (maybe criticable ) :

Mi konscias ke tio kion mi diris supre estas ekstertema, sed mi kredas (lit. mi fidas) ke oni min pardonos. mi lernis Esperanton nur dum kelkaj tagoj (la dauxro oni tradukas per "dum").

Maybe one may try it in Sandbox forum?

Actually Geo, it isn't only the 'may' that is problematic, it is also that 'interfere' always has an unwelcome nuance, whether it is radio interference, inappropriate sexual behaviour with underage persons, or 'naz- ensxovo en fremdan vazon'.

You are quite right that 'may' can have other uses. In 'You may come at six o'clock or seven, but not later.' the idea is not so much of permission, but 'according to your preference' - 'you can if you like'.

sudanglo:Actually Geo, it isn't only the 'may' that is problematic, it is also that 'interfere' always has an unwelcome nuance, whether it is radio interference, inappropriate sexual behaviour with underage persons, or 'naz- ensxovo en fremdan vazon'.

You are quite right that 'may' can have other uses. In 'You may come at six o'clock or seven, but not later.' the idea is not so much of permission, but 'according to your preference' - 'you can if you like'.

Thanks, Sudanglo. This all stuff is quite obvious to a native, but not to me. I am using English only occasionally (with help of my Collins English Dictionary) and so I just pick up a wrong word for situation in question. And there are many people (like Erinja) who do not understand that and accuse me for bad intentions (this happend many times here). I am just a foreigner, and I do not get up from my bed with thought to offend someone on this forum - such things just happen unintentionally due to complexity of English. Reverse is also true. I met many foreigners speaking Polish, but none of them was doing it right.

geo63:PS: I didn't learn English at school, but all by myself in freetime. So do not expect too much from me.

Nice work! Pity none of us can say that about Esperanto and feel special about it

henma:So, why do we keep starting and promoting this kind of threads in the English forum, instead of using the Esperanto forums for this. Let's use the English forum for native beginners, which need it more than we, who can discuss in Esperanto.

Dunno, subconscious stubbornness, unfounded fears. I suspect though that the whole "EO+EN" idea might be popular with many people though (although feel free to replace "EN" with whatever language's board, e.g. EO+ES).

Do many people like the whole idea of "code-switching" (talking in several languages in the same conversation)? Or do many people "malamegas" it? Or do they "malemegas fari" it, but don't mind it? Poll time?

I encourage everyone who has a complaint about the English forum to go and use the Esperanto forum.

It's true that this forum has strayed a long way from its intended purpose of helping beginners, and perhaps we should redirect these long discussions to more appropriate parts of the lernu site (such as the Esperanto forums).

erinja:I encourage everyone who has a complaint about the English forum to go and use the Esperanto forum.

It's true that this forum has strayed a long way from its intended purpose of helping beginners, and perhaps we should redirect these long discussions to more appropriate parts of the lernu site (such as the Esperanto forums).

Please, tell me where I can find the information, that those forums are for helping beginners only. I have looked through all the rules and found nothing about it. I have only found this:

"This is a multilingual forum that you can use to discuss various topics."

Perhaps I am a foreigner, but "various" does not mean "for helping beginners only". So what is it all about? NEURODIVERSITY is such "varius topic" so we discuss it according to your rules. Complaints are various topics too (as well as proposals). I don't understand your comments - why should we leave? Are you throwing us away? Or am I getting this wrong?

erinja:I encourage everyone who has a complaint about the English forum to go and use the Esperanto forum.

I don't have any complaint about the forum... I just try to help with regards to the rule about languages. I also repeat what has been said a lot lately, and it's the fact that people is discussing in this thread topics that could be moved to the Esperanto ones.

geo63:Please, tell me where I can find the information, that those forums are for helping beginners only. I have looked through all the rules and found nothing about it. I have only found this:

"This is a multilingual forum that you can use to discuss various topics."

I found this in the rules:

Specifaj reguloj por la forumoj de lernu!:

....

3. En esperant-lingvaj fadenoj skribu nur en Esperanto.
4. En nacilingvaj fadenoj skribu en tiu lingvo, por kiu ĝi estas kreita. Se vi skribas en Esperanto, bonvolu traduki la tekston nacilingven.

...

9. Obeu la administrantojn de la paĝaro. Se vi estis avertita traduki vian mesaĝon aŭ korekti ĝin, ĉar ĝi ne obeas la regulojn, faru tion. Aliokaze viaj mesaĝoj estos forĵetitaj, kaj poste vi estos blokita, kaj ne plu povos uzi la paĝaron.

It is not a rule that the forum is only to help beginners. It is the goal of the national forums, and cannot be stated as a rule. But there are rules about the languages to use in forums, and about obeying when asked to translate the messages.

geo63:I don't understand your comments - why should we leave? Are you throwing us away? Or am I getting this wrong?

I don't think we are being thrown away... We are only being asked to write our messages at least with an English translation, and to respect the rules and the 'lernu-teamanojn'.

At least, I will keep reading this forum, and writing when I can contribute, as respectfully as possible.

Amike,

Daniel.