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Sometimes...

de EldanarLambetur, 14 de junio de 2011

Aportes: 9

Idioma: English

EldanarLambetur (Mostrar perfil) 14 de junio de 2011 21:10:13

I notice that the "Plena Manlibro de Esperanta Gramatiko" uses the word "iafoje" often when talking about how different words take on different meanings in different situations.

I took the word to mean "sometimes":

"Iafoje oni ankaŭ povas uzi 'de' aŭ 'disde' en tiaj frazoj..."

However, the dictionary on Lernu suggests words like "kelkfoje" or "iufoje" are "sometimes", and when given "iafoje" just splits it into its constituents.

Are they all just different ways of expressing the same thing? Or do they have distinctions (however subtle)?

E.g. does "kelkfoje" suggest some amount of times, where maybe "iafoje" suggests some types of times? What about iufoje?

Miland (Mostrar perfil) 14 de junio de 2011 22:48:04

EldanarLambetur:Are they all just different ways of expressing the same thing?
Wells indicates that iufoje, iafoje or kelkfoje can all be used where we would say "sometimes" in English.

PIV 2005 does make finer distinctions; iufoje refers to sporadic events, iafoje to definite kinds of events, and kelkfoje to multiple events. According to Butler, kelkfoje means "several times".

In my view your interpretation of iafoje as "sometimes" is correct for practical purposes, since this word covers both sporadic events and occasional events of a certain type.

EldanarLambetur (Mostrar perfil) 14 de junio de 2011 22:51:22

Thanks! That clears things up nicely! ridego.gif

T0dd (Mostrar perfil) 15 de junio de 2011 18:43:20

ReVo also offers fojfoje -- De tempo al tempo, en diversaj pluraj, sporadaj okazoj.

For that matter, foje is sometimes used for this purpose, although I think I've also seen it used with the meaning of iam.

In English, "sometimes" is plural, so we understand it to mean "at times", rather than at some single indefinite time. Since the adverbial ending -e in Esperanto is neither singular nor plural, foje could seemingly go either way. This is probably why fojfoje is used, with the repeated root acting as a kind of multiplier.

EldanarLambetur (Mostrar perfil) 15 de junio de 2011 20:22:06

Ahh thanks for that, I'd just been thinking about foje and iam!

geo63 (Mostrar perfil) 16 de junio de 2011 05:42:45

All I could find with foje:

alifoje
ankoraŭfoje
centfoje
ĉifoje
ĉiomfoje
ĉiufoje
duafoje
foje
iafoje
iufoje
kelkfoje
kiomfoje
lastfoje
milfoje
multfoje
ne unu foje
plurfoje
refoje
tiomfoje
trifoje
unu fojon
unuafoje
unufoje

Try to find English equivalents for them (my knowledge in English is too limited, sorry)

henma (Mostrar perfil) 17 de junio de 2011 22:19:35

geo63:All I could find with foje:

...

Try to find English equivalents for them (my knowledge in English is too limited, sorry)
Lemme try:

alifoje - in other occasion
ankoraŭfoje - still ?
centfoje - one hundred times
ĉifoje - this time
ĉiomfoje - ?
ĉiufoje - every time
duafoje - for second time
foje - sometimes
iafoje - sometimes
iufoje - sometimes
kelkfoje - several times
kiomfoje - how many times ?
lastfoje - last time
milfoje - a thousand times
multfoje - several times
ne unu foje - not once
plurfoje - several times
refoje - again
tiomfoje - that many times (?)
trifoje - thrice / three times
unu fojon - once
unuafoje - for the first time
unufoje - once

(what about dufoje - twice? I found unufoje and trifoje in the list, but not dufoje... I also missed fojfoje - sometimes)

Those with -omfoje I didn't know.

Amike,

Daniel.

geo63 (Mostrar perfil) 18 de junio de 2011 06:01:23

henma:(what about dufoje - twice? I found unufoje and trifoje in the list, but not dufoje... I also missed fojfoje - sometimes)
Those with -omfoje I didn't know.
I wrote:

all I could find (having limited time before going out for work). It does not mean that this list is complete. In fact it is far from that. You are free to contribute to it.

dufoja
fojo
kelkfoja
kvarfoja
kvinfoja
multfojeco
okfoja
refoja (refoja festeno)
sesfoja
triafoje
unuafojaĵo
unufoje kribrita
...
sal.gif

{n}foje - where n is any number - this gives unlimited array of words.

ceigered (Mostrar perfil) 19 de junio de 2011 04:43:56

I'd only use "iafoje" when I mean "at certain times/at some times (not "sometimes")", with the sense of "certain types of times, under certain conditions etc".

Otherwise "fojfoje" and "kelkfoje" for me.

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