Mesaĝoj: 11
Lingvo: English
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2007-junio-24 10:37:05
(a) The word 'should', as in
1. I should eat fruit. (As distinct from 'I have to eat fruit'). Possibly 'Fruktoj manĝindas por mi'.
2. I should not have done it. (As distinct from 'I could not do it').
Possibly 'Indis por me ne fari ĝin'
(b) The word 'okay' as in
1. That's okay (Maybe 'En ordo' or 'Ne gravas' depending on the situation)
2. Okay, I'm joking. (Possibly 'Verdire, mi ŝercas').
It seems that there is no straight Esperanto equivalent for 'should' and 'okay', so the translation depends on the context.
mnlg (Montri la profilon) 2007-junio-24 13:55:45
Miland:1. I should eat fruit.Mi devus manĝi fruktojn.
(As distinct from 'I have to eat fruit')Mi devas manĝi fruktojn.
"I must eat fruit":
Mi manĝu fruktojn.
2. I should not have done it.Mi ne dev[int]us fari tion.
(As distinct from 'I could not do it')Mi ne povis fari tion.
1. That's okay (Maybe 'En ordo' or 'Ne gravas' depending on the situation)Those two are good. Also a simple "Bone" is perfectly acceptable.
2. Okay, I'm joking. (Possibly 'Verdire, mi ŝercas').In this and other cases you should try to get the meaning of what you want to say and translate it. I would say "Nu, mi ŝercas" or "Nu bone, mi ŝercis".
Hope this helps.
RiotNrrd (Montri la profilon) 2007-junio-24 15:16:58
It's not clear to me why a language that sources its words from other languages shouldn't legitimately source one of them from English, but people can get funny that way.
Kwekubo (Montri la profilon) 2007-junio-24 17:57:09
RiotNrrd:Some people object to it because it supposedly comes from English, but "okej" is also in use.Totally agree with you. But just to be pedantic I'd spell that as "o kej" since the stress is generally on the last syllable.
It's not clear to me why a language that sources its words from other languages shouldn't legitimately source one of them from English, but people can get funny that way.
mnlg (Montri la profilon) 2007-junio-24 17:58:08
RiotNrrd:It's not clear to me why a language that sources its words from other languages shouldn't legitimately source one of them from English, but people can get funny that way.When there are other words doing the same job, it's not necessary to introduce other ones. I am generally okay (no pun intended) with that as long as it doesn't get out of hands. I've heard "mejbi" once and I'd like not to hear that again
RiotNrrd (Montri la profilon) 2007-junio-24 18:49:56
mnlg:When there are other words doing the same job, it's not necessary to introduce other ones.True. Although I'm not sure that another word really quite captures what "ok" does. Yes, it's possible to phrase things in such as way as to make the meaning clear, but "ok" is so nicely concise.
Besides, its uncertain etymology aside, at this point I'd be willing to make the claim that "ok" is probably one of the most international words there is (regardless of where it started out). I've heard many non-English speakers use it while speaking their native language as if it were just another word in their own. While no term can really be said to be "universally understood", "ok" seems to come pretty close. Which, to my mind, makes it a perfect candidate for an Esperanto word.
mnlg:I've heard "mejbi" once and I'd like not to hear that againLOL! Yes, that's horrible. Of course, that's just "rajting Ingliŝ juzing Esperanto speling".
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2007-junio-24 19:09:13
Esperanto can and does source words from English; it has already taken a fair number of English words. "Birdo" and "pulovero" (pullover) are a couple of good examples. "Bifsteko" is another, though one might argue that it came to Esperanto through another language like French (bifteck) or Italian (bistecca) (which both took it from English)
In some areas - local foods, local animals, local items - I think people would have no problem with the import of an English word. I often say that I like to drink "radik-biero" (root beer) and no one has ever had a problem with that. I have heard words like "mufeno" (muffin) and "ĉipsoj" (chips, according to the American meaning) semi-regularly and no one has complained about it. Food words from other languages are also often esperantized directly from that language.
But for other words, a lot of people prefer to use existing Esperanto roots to form a new word. Therefore, although you occasionally see the English-derived word "komputero" (computer), more common is "komputilo".
Except in relation to specialty food items, I personally prefer to use existing Esperanto roots to form a new word, so that everyone can understand. Therefore, even though I have heard that some Japanese Esperanto speakers use the word "haŝioj" (chopsticks, based on Japanese), I personally use the more unwieldy "manĝbastonetoj".
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2007-junio-24 20:11:32
2. I should not have done it.Mi ne dev[int]us fari tion.
Using 'devus' for 'should' (and 'devintus' for 'should have') has the problem, not only that 'devi' means 'to have to', but more fundamentally, the 'us' affix implies conditionality on something else which is not mentioned. 'Should' implies the desirability of something, which is why I focussed on this with the 'ind' root.
On the other hand, both the Wells and Benson dictionaries translate 'should' as 'devus', and if we accept this as a popular convention, 'Mi ne devintus' is a very neat solution to the problem of translating 'I should not have'.
So, dankon!
mnlg (Montri la profilon) 2007-junio-24 20:36:57
RiotNrrd:at this point I'd be willing to make the claim that "ok" is probably one of the most international words there isYou wouldn't be the first. Radiohead titled their 1997 album as "Ok computer", IIRC stating that those were among the most international words around back then. (incidentally, the booklet for that CD had a lot of esperanto words; some of which not without a few misspellings.)
mnlg (Montri la profilon) 2007-junio-24 20:44:45
Miland:On the other hand, both the Wells and Benson dictionaries translate 'should' as 'devus', and if we accept this as a popular convention, 'Mi ne devintus' is a very neat solution to the problem of translating 'I should not have'.Yes. I seem to recall reading somewhere that the -us verb tense does not really distinguish time. Thus, "Mi devus fari tion" would mean both "I should do that" and "I should have done that" (more skilled speakers are welcome to correct me). I tried to stick to that for a while but it really flows better with me to use "devintus" (as a shortcut for "mi estus devinta", of course) when discussing hypothetical situations pertaining to the past.