글: 9
언어: English
RiotNrrd (프로필 보기) 2007년 6월 24일 오후 7:37:22
I want to say "My kitchen and office will need the most packing": "Mia kuirejo kaj oficejo bezonos la plejan pakadon".
My question in this case is about "mia". It refers to the kitchen AND the office, and each of those is expressed in the singular. But taken together they are two things - plural. Should it be "mia" or "miaj"?
Later on, talking about the packing I need to do, I want to say "The kitchen contains many small things, such as dishes and dry foods": "La kuirejo enhavas multajn aĵetojn, kiel pladoj kaj sekaj manĝaĵoj".
Are "pladoj" and "sekaj manĝaĵoj" considered direct objects, since they are referred to by "multajn aĵetojn" (which is a direct object)? Or, because they are in a separate phrase, are they exempted from the -n ending (such as I have done in my example)?
mnlg (프로필 보기) 2007년 6월 24일 오후 8:32:42
RiotNrrd:Should it be "mia" or "miaj"?Laŭ mia scio, it should be "miaj". The subject is in essence plural.
Are "pladoj" and "sekaj manĝaĵoj" considered direct objects, since they are referred to by "multajn aĵetojn" (which is a direct object)?Yes. "kiel" functions pretty much like an equal sign. Consider this:
Mi renkontis lin kiel prezidanton.
I met him as president. (he is the president).
Mi renkontis lin kiel prezidanto.
I, as president, met him (I am the president).
Hope this helps!
erinja (프로필 보기) 2007년 6월 25일 오전 1:14:58
Should it be "mia" or "miaj"?In modern Esperanto grammar it's definitely "miaj", although there were cases of Zamenhof using "mia" in a very similar context.
If you feel weird using "miaj" in this context, you could always avoid it by saying, for example, "Mia kuirejo kaj mia oficejo".
RiotNrrd (프로필 보기) 2007년 6월 25일 오후 3:54:29
Using a plural adjective (I guess, technically a possessive) to modify singular nouns feels a bit odd to me, but it's just something I'll have to get used to. It does make sense to do so in this kind of situation.
Vilinilo (프로필 보기) 2007년 6월 25일 오후 8:23:12
An extra question for you: Is it all right to say: "La pladoj kaj la sekaj manĝaĵoj estas la aĵetoj, kiujn la kuirejo enhavas" ?
mnlg (프로필 보기) 2007년 6월 25일 오후 8:34:41
Vilinilo:Why in the phrase "La kuirejo enhavas multajn aĵetojn, kiel pladojn kaj sekajn manĝaĵojn" does one use "kiel"You can read "kiel" as "such as", or simply "as".
instead of "kiujn"You can say "La kuirejo enhavas multajn aferojn, inter kiuj estas pladoj kaj sekaj manĝaĵoj" and it would be correct.
Or you could say "La kuirejo enhavas multajn aferojn, kiujn mi ŝatas". And it would be correct, too.
With "kiujn" you specify an object that relates to a plural noun in the previous sentence. It need not be the object of the previous sentence, though. Example:
En tiu domo estas multaj homoj, kiujn mi konas.
(In that house there are many people I know)
"kiujn" is the object of the second sentence ("kiujn mi konas"), but it relates to the subject of the first sentence. The -n is added because it is an object in the sentence it appears, not because it was an object before that.
An extra question for youYou did fill your quota of questions
(just kidding, of course)
Is it all right to say: "La pladoj kaj la sekaj manĝaĵoj estas la aĵetoj, kiujn la kuirejo enhavas" ?Yes, it is correct.
Vilinilo (프로필 보기) 2007년 6월 25일 오후 8:46:46
Thanks a bunch
mnlg (프로필 보기) 2007년 6월 25일 오후 9:19:48
Vilinilo:I didn't quite figure yet why is "kiel" the best option,"Kiel" is also used for equal comparisons.
Mi ŝatas librojn same kiel florojn.
I like books the same as flowers.
"tiel" is in "kaj tiel plu" (and so forth) which is used in enumerations, not necessarily of adverbs. The use of kiel can be somehow related to that:
Mi vidas multajn aĵojn, kiel ekzemple seĝojn kaj tablojn.
I see many things, [such] as for instance chairs and tables.
I hope this helps.