jean-luc:

novmik:
Obviously French is spoken differently everywhere, from Haiti to Quebec to Belgium, I am sure there are variations.

Yes. For example Quebecois is quite different from "french" french.

novmik:
Is it true that the French have added a lot of Frenchified words to Esperanto that Zamenhof didn't include originally?

Yes.

novmik:
If so, does the French support for Esperanto coincide with French support for the IMF, for instance, since one of the prime languages of the IMF is french, as they go bus touring around 3rd world water sources that they want to impose a tax on?

As far as I know the french government never supported esperanto (quite the contrary in fact). I don't really understand the rest of the question.

Yes the Quebecois speak faster than in France I heard. Incidentally I live in the most French state in the US, as far as I know, with a number of households speaking French in the home.

Maybe not the French government, but possibly some other institutions?

The IMF and World Bank like to go on Bus Tours and conventions. In many cases I have begun to feel there is some sort of comedy in their activities as they relate to France. There is a good documentary about water:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6xWxncrZ6U

It does have some clips of the some very posh looking guys in buses who speak a very broken English and use the word "regarding" in an inappropriate context with French accents. I had a vision of these guys like Vampires riding the bus of death, all smiling and hissing vigorously in their seats.

After watching this I began a boycott of all Nestle products. There is something weird going on with water lately. Some call it the new oil.

http://www.theworldsociety.org/elite1.html

That is one of the weirdest sites I have clapped eyes on.

Another way, Ceiger, that Esperanto differs from other languages is the extent that the speakers are aware of the 'rules'.

Ask an average Englishman to explain why you say 'When did the train get in' and not 'When has the train got in' and typically he will flounder around for an explanation.

The level of consciousness that Esperanto speakers have about the language is bound to influence any evolution with the passage of time, and pretty much negates the linguists' notion that Esperanto must behave like the natural languages.

I know that the idea is currently prevalent that Esperanto is just another language, but it is important to be objective and recognize Esperanto for what it is.

Possibly, this idea that Esperanto should not be distinguished from any other minority 'natural' language became popular in a bid to benefit from the Zeitgeist of political correctness - under which all cultures and languages are equal and any discrimination is bad. So to criticize Esperanto would be as bad as criticizing Welsh.

novmik:I still think americans should be more hidden. I am generally hidden in the USA from other Americans, but was exploited by the internet. Germany is more hidden. Germany doesnt even like to allow the Google van to photograph their streets. That too really is a form of exploitation, street exploitation by google. We are moving toward this era where everything is exploited. I am starting to get tired of it.

I am sick of foreigners and their views of the USA and money. There are plenty of blond blue eyed people in the USA who eat at soup kitchens, etc. All kinds of stupid stereotypes from overseas that people imagine. Ireland has more religious nuts than the USA. Even Canadians have almost no concept of the USA.

Well, to be frank I'd say get used to it. It's not that bigger deal. If they ask you annoying questions, don't take it to heart, you obviously don't need to care that much about their questions if they're silly unless they honestly are asking. If they're just not using their heads, give them a half hearted answer back. Don't exert yourself more than you have to mate (also you might start to see a reverse in perceptions - the world is becoming increasingly aware of the US's dire economic state, so I wouldn't be surprised if people start assuming everyone in the US is poor, which is bollocks too).

As for Google and streetview, a messy topic, but I wouldn't say it's worth worrying about. The information is literally lying there for the taking, and google are putting it to better use by keeping it publicly accessible for free than other "information brokers" might do - of course, it's open for misuse, but only as much as some guy could physically walk down your street. I think Germany was really just overreacting to be honest since there was no real established threat anyway.

novmik:I have been in some of these demos, like the Prague Demo against the IMF. I can tell you, most of the violence really comes from provocation by the authorities. Like the DEMO was to stop the IMF from having a meeting and going to the Opera. We sat in front of a public bus that was filled with IMF guys at night. Essentially just to block its path, but the men inside the bus were very sinister! I still remember the sneering grin of one of the business suit wearing bastards. Then the bus actually tried to run some people over! After that someone threw a rock at the bus window. But the rock was not thrown until the bus attempted to run over people!

Meh.. Not good, but all humans are easily capable of that sort of evil (although I hate the term "evil" since it's more just a human emotion than a concrete concept). As far as I'm concerned, this isn't anything to do with being sinister, but stupid

A "sinister" man, in my opinion, would have pretended convincingly to take the concerns of the protestors to heart, helped work with them to realise their vision, and then hijack that vision and reveal it was in fact all a long winded way to square in the protestors into a legal cage or something like that.

That would be sinister and dare I say applaudable (applaudable before being very peeved off!)

Of course, each situation is unique so I won't continue on that tangent should I accidentally vindicate less... agreeable... situations .

Anyway, my personal rule is to learn to see all sides of the story, and try and understand the viewpoints of all parties involved, and not to worry about what I arrogantly think of as being the limitations of the minds of others that lead them to doing foolish things (like trying to run over protestors thus enraging them). Works for me

sudanglo:Another way, Ceiger, that Esperanto differs from other languages is the extent that the speakers are aware of the 'rules'.

Ask an average Englishman to explain why you say 'When did the train get in' and not 'When has the train got in' and typically he will flounder around for an explanation.

The level of consciousness that Esperanto speakers have about the language is bound to influence any evolution with the passage of time, and pretty much negates the linguists' notion that Esperanto must behave like the natural languages.

This is only relevant for as long as Esperanto is taught the way it currently is (as a jumpboard into other languages), for as long as the speaker population cares about correctness (I know friends who know grammar but can't be stuffed applying it), or for as long as there's a large largely self-taught learner group.

Once we get to more traditional language learning similar to an ethnic diaspora things will become less stable. Of course, we might be "lucky" (depending on what you want your future EO to be like), and have it stay regular, but there's nothing that permanently keeps that intact, only chance really.

(on another note, ask the "get/got" question here and we'd say the second is wrong too simply because it is, and I can imagine future generations of Esperanto learners, perhaps ones with access to actually conversation partners over our current primary sources of grammars etc, will start to do the same - "it's wrong because it is". But I guess since unlike traditional evolution of traditions, where traditions wear down over a couple of generations, with EO, it'd be a longer process since it isn't children so much as mature adults doing the learning).

I know that the idea is currently prevalent that Esperanto is just another language, but it is important to be objective and recognize Esperanto for what it is.

Possibly, this idea that Esperanto should not be distinguished from any other minority 'natural' language became popular in a bid to benefit from the Zeitgeist of political correctness - under which all cultures and languages are equal and any discrimination is bad. So to criticize Esperanto would be as bad as criticizing Welsh.

I'm fine with all that. Esperanto is technically a minority language, spoken by a predominately large group of speakers who require active practice instead of say passive practice for english. Surely agreeing to provide assistance to a somewhat small language user group with a culture focussed on international-communication wouldn't be bad, except for those boring fellows who reckon that Espearnto etc are just "toys" or that it's not worthwhile supporting "made-up" languages/cultures (a retort could be "well it's a whole lot better than your culture of sitting on your bum all day and criticising others for no good reason other than the fact that you don't the same stuff as us!" ).

ceigered:

Well, to be frank I'd say get used to it. It's not that bigger deal. If they ask you annoying questions, don't take it to heart, you obviously don't need to care that much about their questions if they're silly unless they honestly are asking. If they're just not using their heads, give them a half hearted answer back. Don't exert yourself more than you have to mate (also you might start to see a reverse in perceptions - the world is becoming increasingly aware of the US's dire economic state, so I wouldn't be surprised if people start assuming everyone in the US is poor, which is bollocks too).

I would prefer if the USA was thought poor or had a reduced image of extravagance. I have had some trouble overseas with not only anarchists but Schengen Police. Once the Schengen in Belgium held me some time, believing I wasnt American, because I only had a small rucksack and no credit cards. They stated that Americans always carry a lot of luggage and cards. My lack of these items was therefore almost Satanic to them. They even believed I was German, though my name is Dutch. Speaking Dutch themselves, I was surprised they didnt recognize the name as one of their own, and a common one! They even tried talking to me in German! Its true I was in Germany in a squat in Berlin for a while. It has been closed though, the Brunnenstrasse one.

ceigered:

A "sinister" man, in my opinion, would have pretended convincingly to take the concerns of the protestors to heart, helped work with them to realise their vision, and then hijack that vision a...

I had a long run with these protesters, and coming from a rather politically indifferent American background, I have to say it took me a lot of time and thought and reflection on my own way of looking at things and exactly what their protest movement meant to them as an organization, and this took a lot of studying of history in the USA, the Bannana Wars, the US in Latin American, Standard Oil, and of course I never like Republicans, so eventually I dropped my neutrality and decided even anarchists who hated me for being an American were nevertheless mostly applaudable people for their no-compromise views. I am no reactionary and learned not to take things too personally.

Funny, they are blocking my IP address from this site! But I have TOR and Vidalia running, so its easy as pie to bounce off a proxy!

About your other question, more Americans are poor than you realize perhaps, but Europe in general sides only with a certain group of middle class moderate news watching Democrat families. Harrison Ford the actor would be a model American for Europe. He grew up in a perfect Chicago middle class Democrat family, and is a famous actor. This is the American for Europe. They want Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom with David Hasselhof singing Elvis songs like "A Cold and Grey Chicago". Harrison Ford eating a Cheeseburger and carrying Matching luggage holding hands with David Hasselhof. This kind of perfection, and the man can do no wrong, even dropping depleted Uranium on civilians is considered laughable. Just as long as you are not Bush and carry lots of credit cards for their police to inspect.