Sinanthiel:I find cursing offensive, and it's not just out of respect for children, but other people as well. If you were around my sister in real life, and you were cursing in front of my nephews, she'd kick you out of her house. Her kids don't curse like pirates, they don't even say damn, or hell because they've learned good values, and respecting other peoples boundaries.

No offence towards your surely nice nephews, but honestly, that's got nothing to do with respecting other people's boundaries. Rather, it's a case of doing nothing for fear of disrespecting others. Actually actively and consciously respecting others boundaries requires more dynamic decision making (not swearing in front of someone, as I've mentioned before, can be patronising, or make them feel unwelcome).

And if you kick someone out of your house because they swore (of course, it depends on the manner ), that's not respectful at all by the logic we're going with here. Especially if it's unconscious swearing (e.g. swearing because that's how you've heard it done before), since then that's being met with a conscious decision to kick someone out.

Similarly, calling novmik disrespectful without knowing him is probably somewhat insulting - similar to how swearing offends some people....

Anyway, like I explained before, what your family does is what your family does, not the way others work, and that doesn't make either lot inferior/superior, especially given the greyness of this topic.

Not meaning to offend/troll, just showing how easily you can flip the entire viewpoint around. And I'm sure you have a nice family, please don't take this as me insulting them!

ceigered:

Sinanthiel:I find cursing offensive, and it's not just out of respect for children, but other people as well. If you were around my sister in real life, and you were cursing in front of my nephews, she'd kick you out of her house. Her kids don't curse like pirates, they don't even say damn, or hell because they've learned good values, and respecting other peoples boundaries.

No offence towards your surely nice nephews, but honestly, that's got nothing to do with respecting other people's boundaries. Rather, it's a case of doing nothing for fear of disrespecting others. Actually actively and consciously respecting others boundaries requires more dynamic decision making (not swearing in front of someone, as I've mentioned before, can be patronising, or make them feel unwelcome).

And if you kick someone out of your house because they swore (of course, it depends on the manner ), that's not respectful at all by the logic we're going with here. Especially if it's unconscious swearing (e.g. swearing because that's how you've heard it done before), since then that's being met with a conscious decision to kick someone out.

Similarly, calling novmik disrespectful without knowing him is probably somewhat insulting - similar to how swearing offends some people....

Anyway, like I explained before, what your family does is what your family does, not the way others work, and that doesn't make either lot inferior/superior, especially given the greyness of this topic.

Not meaning to offend/troll, just showing how easily you can flip the entire viewpoint around. And I'm sure you have a nice family, please don't take this as me insulting them!

I consider swearing literary. Sometimes its literary to praise God, like in certain 19th century books by Charles Dickens, where the extremely violent and controlling Christian says "dont take the lord's name in vain", but then the west is very Dickensian still, with the weird Horatio Alger dream of ascending to the middle class and bildungsromans with happy endings and everywhere beggars in the streets and villainous capitalist scrooges. Because we are still in the 19th century, even though we have advanced technology.

One of my favorite literary curses is from Jean Genet when he describes French prisoners who yelled "I f#%k the mother of God!" A good Russian one I heard was "Your mother is a pederast!"

sudanglo:For a word or expression to be effective as swearing, its use in polite society must evoke disapproval.

However the Esperanto community is on the whole rather genteel, lacking in the cruder coarser type of fellow.

The language is therefore somewhat stunted in its store of 'colourful' expressions.

But there are some bodily functions, unmentionable body parts, or distasteful occupations or practices that reference to in many societies is considered not 'nice', and from that the non-medical Esperanto equivalents have some force.

But not much, as the necessary sociological stratum which would by association imbue such references with greater force is lacking.

Perhaps the equivalent of taking the Lord's name in vain in Esperanto is disrespectful references to Zamenhof.

The English language has a very rich collection of abusive terms for foreigners of various origins (Hun, Kraut, Fritz, Jerry, Frog, Dago, Wog, Chink, Nip etc), but such are the peculiar sensitivities of the Esperanto community that once I was admonished for referring to Fremduloj, instead of using the neutral term Eksterlandanoj.

Well, if there are no course people, and only genteel people forever speak Esperanto, then you will have something slightly horrifying: a class that speaks a separate language than the lower class. This would be a strange class division indeed, and possibly not what Zamenhof had in mind. Im going to develop a crude form of Esperanto and teach it to winos on the street. Ill pay them for how much they learn. It will be their secret language. Like a medical study sort of. They come to a sort of hospital as outpatients. At the end based on how much Esperanto they learn, they will be paid. I will apply for a grant to do it, study the effects of Esperanto on winos.

I'm sorry, but I think that something is wrong with the idea that NOT swearing in front of some people is somehow patronizing or causes them to feel unwelcome...when people engage in behaviors that are unacceptable or offensive, do others have an obligation to make them feel comfortable doing that? I don't think so. I don't cuss/swear because I don't believe in it, and I'm not about to do something I don't believe in just so someone else can feel comfortable doing it.

Using vulgar language is the verbal equivalent to passing gas in a room full of people. It's coarse, immature, and disrespectful. If someone had the attitude that "WELL, I'm just going to pass gas whenever I want to, and you can just DEAL with it", that would be bad enough. But to then take it a step further and say "if YOU don't pass gas in front of people like I do, then YOU'RE making ME feel patronized and unwelcome..." that goes off the charts. What about THEIR obligation to make ME feel comfortable?

And no, I don't fall all over myself and go into hysterics over every curse word. But I don't have to respect it, and I sure don't have to emulate it to give someone the impression that I think it's okay or that I approve. As far as the kids go, it was never allowed in my home. And because I didn't swear, I wasn't being a hypocrite in insisting that my kids didn't, either.

If you cant deal with even a curse word, then you dont need to be on the internet. The internet is the world and wild stuff happens on it. If you dont like it, I am not Kurt Vonnegut to hold back curse words. Its not your section of suburbia to have a community patrol in. Its the internet, world, all people. You people cant deal with real life.

I take it the troll is mikijo reincarnated?

tommjames:I take it the troll is mikijo reincarnated?

novmik definitely is (see "mia nova retejo" in the vidpunktoj subboard)

I'm not taking the bait. I have FAR more important things to do with my time than to attempt cogent dialogue with someone who who is only interested in inflammatory, provocative monologue. It's boring and life's too short as it is.

oh no, and i thought this time he'd be posting normally and not trolling

(this message was related to a now deleted message by novmik where he insulted christians etc)

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