Hozzászólások: 31
Nyelv: English
geo63 (Profil megtekintése) 2011. augusztus 10. 5:17:06
1. It is internationally used - true
2. It is easier to learn than national languages - true
3. It is spread all over the world - true
4. It functions as a real language - true
So what the problem they have...?
Brajchjo (Profil megtekintése) 2011. augusztus 10. 11:16:52
There has been massive publicity in the British media during the last month both in local BBC radio stations and in the national media such as the Financial Times and the Daily Mail - as well as a BBC Television broadcast in Scotland and the BBC national radio Today programme.
So the chunterings of a few anti-Esperanto morons in the Daily Telegraph should not really worry us
sudanglo (Profil megtekintése) 2011. augusztus 10. 11:43:01
But it is usually the case of not bothering to do any research. Why would you? The idea of an invented language is obviously loony. So any journalist may think that the most superficial investigation is adequate.
The best reaction is to gently provide some facts - not react defensively.
And, of course, very few native speakers have any insight into the workings and mechanisms of their own mother tongue, but assume metaknowledge, because, after all, they speak it fluently.
The most egregious error is the lumping together of a 'language' like Klingon, which is for entertainment, with Esperanto, which has a serious practical purpose.
ceigered (Profil megtekintése) 2011. augusztus 10. 12:12:05
I think people have to realise that it's not such a one dimensional issue be it klingon or esperanto. They're both outworkings of artificially spawned yet naturally sustained cultures. In some aspects Klingon enthusiasts are the same as modern people who still respect old stories and make them part of their lives (modern story tellers, with tribal camps replaced with urban jungles).
Esperanto culture is more naturalistic and an imitation of pidgin/mix cultures (kulturbund?), but on a massive scale, like if singapore was the world.
Without such deepened perspectives, people say stupid, offensive things confidently.
ceigered (Profil megtekintése) 2011. augusztus 10. 12:18:51
I afterall learn EO for the same "purpose" a trekkie learns Klingon.
It doesn't matter whatpurpose Zamenhoff had for EO, we each have our own reasons. The Telegraph didnt know that and made us look like victorian era pre-enlightenment activists. I certainly think thats unfair to those of us with more pragmatic, perhaps nihilistic tastes* for EO *(in the eyes of some finvenkistoj perhaps)
IvoG (Profil megtekintése) 2011. augusztus 10. 13:36:26
languages are my hobby (i've studied 15-20 different languages) and i'm particularly interested in constructed languages (artistic ones + to a lesser extent -> UALs) - i haven't studies Klingon yet
but i have learned some of Tolkien's languages...p.s. btw why i don't have the option to quote a user's post
Hispanio (Profil megtekintése) 2011. augusztus 10. 14:40:46
IvoG:"what if people learn Esperanto for entertainment"At the top of an user's post you'll see two options: answer and report as spam
languages are my hobby (i've studied 15-20 different languages) and i'm particularly interested in constructed languages (artistic ones + to a lesser extent -> UALs) - i haven't studies Klingon yet
p.s. btw why i don't have the option to quote a user's post
IvoG (Profil megtekintése) 2011. augusztus 10. 16:23:02
one would think i've never replied to a post before... 3rdblade (Profil megtekintése) 2011. augusztus 11. 2:20:14
ceigered:Thus I guess you calling Klingon a language in quotation marks means I should call Esperanto a 'language' and not a language.Speaking as someone with quite extensive experience with the sci-fi/comics geek subculture, I would say that the main reason people learn Klingon is to show the depth of their loyalty to Star Trek and Star Trek fandom, because that's how they identify themselves. They see themselves as outsiders, unusual, they seek a tribe of like-minded souls and some way of definitely distinguishing themselves from the mainstream. Another example is that American juror who went to jury wearing a Star Trek outfit, about which the judge complained. (With good cause!)
I afterall learn EO for the same "purpose" a trekkie learns Klingon.
So basically, it's about ego and self-identity of the learner. I would not compare someone's motivation to learn Esperanto to someone's motivation to study Klingon at all. Being able to speak Klingon at a sci-fi convention is like owning a pair of Bill Shatner's sneakers, or being able to recite all of the Rules of Acquisition by heart, or owning a signed portrait of DeForest Kelley, or something similar. Klingon is merchandise, it adds lustre and deeper meaning to the product it's helping to sell. For these reasons it's not like Esperanto and shouldn't be put on the same platform as it.
erinja (Profil megtekintése) 2011. augusztus 11. 2:33:23
But I believe I read a brief article on the results of a detailed study that someone did of proficient Klingon speakers. If I remember correctly, it said that the people who got seriously into Klingon basically left the Star Trek thing behind. The ones who seriously learned it were into it as a language, not as a Star Trek membership thing. The ones who were more into Star Trek were more likely to learn a few phrases, but not to reach anything degree of proficiency.