darkweasel:can't someone just delete the whole offtopic discussion nobody really cares about?

I agree 100% or more

I would say the accusative ending is necessary for clarity because of all the different languages and syntaxes of the world. Many languages are ordered differently than English and when people from languages such as Japanese (which uses a Subject-Object-Verb pattern) go to learn a language with different standards of syntax, things can get pretty confusing (especially when dealing with multiple subjects or objects).

Also, (I've not studied this extensively but) it seems that most other languages in the world have some form of accusitive marking.

Vespero_:Also, (I've not studied this extensively but) it seems that most other languages in the world have some form of accusitive marking.

English has this feature too, but with some personal pronouns:

You see me (not you see I)
You see her (not you see she)
...

geo63:

Vespero_:Also, (I've not studied this extensively but) it seems that most other languages in the world have some form of accusitive marking.

English has this feature too, but with some personal pronouns:

You see me (not you see I)
You see her (not you see she)
...

and in the relative pronoun "whom"

ps. 3333rd posting

geo63:

Vespero_:Also, (I've not studied this extensively but) it seems that most other languages in the world have some form of accusitive marking.

English has this feature too, but with some personal pronouns:

You see me (not you see I)
You see her (not you see she)
...

Well, yes, but outside of Pronouns, I mean. Besides, most people nowadays skip right over those. Whom is being forgotten! As an English major, it saddens me.

If one's language has clear accusative case, it is much easer to learn this feature. In Polish we have 7 cases for nouns, adjectives and personal pronouns. From Polish point of view esperanto is extremely easy to learn. There are languages that have up to 45 different cases (and they say that Polish is the hardest).

English marks the accusative by word order:

a book read I - wrong (mostly)
I read a book - good (usually)

darkweasel:ps. 3333rd posting

I congratulate you on reaching 3x11x101. I'm not sure whether those prime numbers have any other secret meaning.

Vespero_:

geo63:

Vespero_:Also, (I've not studied this extensively but) it seems that most other languages in the world have some form of accusitive marking.

English has this feature too, but with some personal pronouns:

You see me (not you see I)
You see her (not you see she)
...

Well, yes, but outside of Pronouns, I mean. Besides, most people nowadays skip right over those. Whom is being forgotten! As an English major, it saddens me.

a bit offtopic, in my first english exam ever, when i hadn't yet learned the object pronouns, my only mistake was a forgotten accusative ("do you wear they to school?")

geo63:

ceigered:

geo63:If English was so good, every one would be happy with it. It is not. That the result. And the sentence is more than true in every its word.

Well, not everyone's happy with Esperanto either, so all of us striving to be Bilingual English-Esperanto speakers are ultimately buggered by the sounds of things .

It goes like this: Esperanto is full of flaws and since it is different, it needs repairs (after 123 years of usage!) It is OK. But if you say that English is not up to the role it is trying to play - you are a terrorist.[...] No, it is a dull Globish, a primitive slang. How can you stand the beautiful English words are twisted in all possible ways by foreigners... I travelled a lot and heard enough of this.

Well, I was just joking around a bit, but you do give the impression that you just have to bring in irrelevant concerns about English all the time. That's partially due to your wording (it sounds a cross between patronising* and nihilistic). Alas when then make a comment like the one I have, that's not to turn you into a terrorist but to go "well, what's "how good is English" got to do with whether people like it or not? I'd like to think if Esperanto was hated by every person on the face of the earth, it'd still be considered good".

*(Obviously we can't hear your voice, but it's easy to read as an English speaker "If English was so good" as if you are both saying it is very bad, and that all of us who think English is a good language are idiots who haven't thought about anything. It's hard to explain why, but if you ever do have the misfortune of seeing arguments erupt in spoken English over and over again about the disputed topic of how good something is, "if XYZ is so good" is almost a taunt, so in arguments, if we want them to stay civil we avoid alluding to the possibility the other person has their mind in fantasy-land.)

So it's possible that you have all the best intentions in the world but your comments are just accidentally making people upset because you say something irrelevant (which in itself is OK), and then say something a little teasing (which by itself is OK too), but together it looks like a fight is starting to those of us with a heavy western/English bias.

Chainy:Do you even know what malicious means? I didn't make any such remark - I merely objected to your utterly irrelevant comment about English, something which you talk about painfully often.

Chainy, with all due respect you are making malicious comments right here. The use of the intensifiers "even", "utterly", and most of all "painfully", give the impression that you're looking for a fight too. If you want to actually let Geo know this, you can just use a joke that doesn't attack his persona, or softly tell him your frustrations as opposed to saying things like "painfully".

In summary, for Geo, I think my comments and Darkweasel's ("yes geo63, but the point is that nobody was talking about this in this thread.") sum up things pretty well, and for Chainy, your use of superlatives, exaggerations and patronising language doesn't seem to be helping things at all, since we always end up with this bitter ambience in the thread. Both of you use vocabulary that is perfectly OK when the mood isn't quite so tense.

It'd be nice if the bitter mood that shows in primarily in the 2nd page of this thread isn't repeated ad infinitum.

Sometimes people make forum comments that look like insults, but these comments are always borderline enough that they are able to deny having insulted anyone, and put it down to a miscommunication or misunderstanding.

How wonderful it would be in this forum if everyone would just ignore these comments, so they would not turn into full-blown rudeness on both sides.

People hold certain opinions that are unlikely to change based on the feedback of others. Opinions on languages, politics, all sorts of topics. I suggest that this forum's readers stop rising to the bait. These comments die if no one responds to them.