Seeing Esperanto as a Natural Language (Random Section)

My idea is to show, that with creative thought, that Esperanto, despite its "artificial" appearances to some, can actually be seen as being rather "natural", and to do so by showing how if we pretend Esperanto is actually a Latin daughter language, it's explainable and logical how Esperanto could be the final result, and thus demystify its appearance and show that there isn't necessarily anything "artificial" about it.

(I originally wrote up the first draft (before the... erm... current draft?) on my iPhone in the notes section during the train ride back home from university, after thinking about the idea for a bit and how fun it would be, sort of like that "archaic esperanto" conlang, but instead of a conlang, I'd be delving into the art of "constructed philology/constructed linguistic reconstruction" . Then I realised I had written it in Esperanto when the ideal audience would be English speakers, alas I'll still eventually try and do the Eo section even though I've restarted sortof).

Anyway, if anyone has anything they want to add, any constructive ideas about this approach, it might be a fun little direction to go in. Obviously the nature of this is in good fun, and I don't wish to take "constructed language construction" to a level of seriousness, so keep that in mind and don't go "wait, what's the point, Zamenhof made it, no point exploring what-ifs", since I'm aware of this argument, but don't care since those people are either already esperantists, or never gonna be them anyway

(Also, these are bloated, drafty like versions of what I hope to incorporate into a much more user friendly final product that doesn't have to go back to "what if" so much).

Sounds like a worthwhile project. You might want to modify your title to something more believable to people who know that Esperanto was designed, by using expressions like "not so artificial" or "more natural than you think".

You make a good point about natural languages importing words from all sorts of places, so that a vocabulary of mixed origins is not a bar to a language being natural.

The original principle of unity of the language was Zamenhof's mind, so you might want to dig a little in historical sources.

Finally, if you write your article in Esperanto, you might consider submitting it to a magazine like Monato.

Bonan ŝancon!

You can probably use Modern Hebrew, Hochdeutsch, or Mandarin to show that cultures all over the world have adopted unifying languages, and Esperanto would be 'the next step.'

Miland:
You make a good point about natural languages importing words from all sorts of places, so that a vocabulary of mixed origins is not a bar to a language being natural.

Most non-before-touched-by-Esperanto-(propaganda) (German: unbeleckt, unbefangen) people I talked to simply want to know if I'm capable to talk Esperanto and how Espo sounds spoken. Doing propaganda this way, I also see, that Ido and Interlingua are serious competitors at the field of constructed languages. Even if Esperanto community seems to have more critical mass then its competitors. So, its more by public practiced language, which could give some naturality-bar of languages.

Miland:
The original principle of unity of the language was Zamenhof's mind, so you might want to dig a little in historical sources.

Same like the Hippie movement tried, too. (Its interesting that the Hippies came with strong music propaganda of their unity ideas). But, their main problem was, that not everybody can love everybody by default or even has listening skills to figure out others provocing-different beliefs. Because that needs respect of others beliefs and not behaving like outstanding special.

Also, Interlingua reclaims that Interlingua basic vocabulary only contains words which excist at least inside three(?) other romanic languages. But does that make Interlingua pure naturalistic? And who cares about? There should be also some excotic left to learn a foreign language, isn't?

qwertz:So, its more by public practiced language, which could give some naturality-bar of languages.

Indeed. Alas, some people won't be swayed that way (most likely people like me haha), so I'll still go ahead with this.

Pincer strategy

qwertz:Also, Interlingua reclaims that Interlingua basic vocabulary only contains words which excist at least inside three(?) other romanic languages. But does that make Interlingua pure naturalistic? And who cares about? There should be also some excotic left to learn a foreign language, isn't?

Yep, that's true. Well, it's a simplified version of the truth at least. They see what languages have which word forms in common, and come up with the most neutral equivalent, so in the end it's really a modernised Latin reflecting the the main modern "carriers" of Latin - French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese and English (of course, English's main influence is lack of adjective-noun agreement in Interlingua).

I'd argue that it makes interlingua naturalistic, but I'd now argue the same of Esperanto, but not as much. Interlingua though obviously isn't as exotic as Esperanto, so it's slightly more niche (if Latin's spirit were to come back in a new body though, Interlingua is a good emulation of that, one reason why I like it).

I'll shutup about that though, since I'm digressing massively.

Thanks Miland for the ideas, but, phew, Monato's a lofty goal (for me ). I'll see what I can do in the next year though, perhaps this might end up being well done (I hope )

I might first work on this more creative, fun idea, then after I myself have explored the exact things I'm writing (probably'd help to read my own dribble), I might work on using the ideas to create a more user-friendly article on the subject.

Razlem:You can probably use Modern Hebrew, Hochdeutsch, or Mandarin to show that cultures all over the world have adopted unifying languages, and Esperanto would be 'the next step.'

Admittedly I'm a bit of a raŭmisto, but I reckon that I could still find a way to get to that. Perhaps in a section dedicated to "why you shouldn't curse native esperanto-speaking children to a life of psychopathy without knowing them or their parents, amongst other things", I can work in the phenomenon of "free-entry culture groups", or work it into a postmodern subcultural examination of Esperanto. Draw parallels to gypsies in a way, but emphasizing the lack of genetic relations, lack of ethnicity, and avoiding the problematic public perception of gypsies too (otherwise before long I'm then writing an article about romany rights).

Miland:Finally, if you write your article in Esperanto, you might consider submitting it to a magazine like Monato.

Reading the link, that might not actually be possible (apart from my lack of experience combined with a lack of effort ).

"Bv. atenti, ke MONATO publikigas tekstojn en sed ne pri Esperanto. Do ne sendu primovadajn artikolojn."



I can suppose why they'd do that though, since they'd figure "damn, there's enough crud about the language in the language as is (on lernu! ), let's talk about something else".

But the fact you get paid in some form (if you're already a subscriber? I understood it literally but not sure I get the idea right) is nice.

Monato is a magazine in Esperanto, which pointedly focuses on writing about things like current events, not about Esperanto itself.

But you might submit your article instead to a magazine like Kontakto.

ceigered:

qwertz:So, its more by public practiced language, which could give some naturality-bar of languages.

Indeed. Alas, some people won't be swayed that way (most likely people like me haha), so I'll still go ahead with this.

Pincer strategy

Neeej. For me, Esperanto practicing is a hobby game and nothing else. I will not go anywhere to do some mission work in the name of plej mojosa uncle Zam. I assume, he would understand that if he could read that. Okay, the main libary of Bavaria country plans to make a special exhibition(pdf file) of constructed languages (in detail Volapük and Esperanto) next year. Would be cool to place some Esperanto entertainment there.

ceigered:
Interlingua though obviously isn't as exotic as Esperanto, so it's slightly more niche (if Latin's spirit were to come back in a new body though, Interlingua is a good emulation of that, one reason why I like it).

Depends of your native language. Speaking for me like an German native speaker I see Interlingua and Ido much more excotic than Esperanto due to the fact that in Esperanto are to much German words like danki, bremsi, ŝranko, the whole Akkusativ thing ktp. That's somewhat boring for me. Okay, maybe could be different for somebody German native who learns Esperanto like the first foreign language.

Regarding publishing of some print-article. Contact Roger (singer of Supernova). He is the publisher/editor of kontakto.tejo.org.

Okay. Back to topic.

erinja:Monato is a magazine in Esperanto, which pointedly focuses on writing about things like current events, not about Esperanto itself.

But you might submit your article instead to a magazine like Kontakto.

On the rare chance I feel I'm onto something, I shall keep their name in mind Ultimately I guess it doesn't really matter in the end where it's published, be it the net, here or the more prestigious status of a community review.

qwertz:I will not go anywhere to do some mission work in the name of plej mojosa uncle Zam. I assume, he would understand that if he could read that.

Pffft. Stuff doing it for him, it's all for my sake (that sounds ruder than I mean it )

qwertz:Depends of your native language. Speaking for me like an German native speaker I see Interlingua and Ido much more excotic than Esperanto due to the fact that in Esperanto are to much German words like danki, bremsi, ŝranko, the whole Akkusativ thing ktp.

I guess it depends from person to person. I generally find any language that I haven't found before exotic But for example I find Anglo-Norman french very interesting despite many of its words being in English, which then leads to me thinking English is an amazing and strange new language... which doesn't make sense at all .

Sed, laŭ mi, ju pli multaj lingvoj, des pli bona universo, ĉar ĉiuj homoj povas havi iliajn ekzotajn lingvojn .

(gratuitous use of Esperanto to practice ju/des)