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ca, kivuye

Ubutumwa 42

Ururimi: English

MiMalamasLaAnglan (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 14 Gitugutu 2019 20:46:25

Is there a single-root word for "left" (as opposed to maldekstra)? I looked online and found a word liva, but is it in common usage? Is there another word?

Mi scivolas, ĉu estas alia maniero por diri "maldekstra".

Dankon.

sergejm (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 14 Gitugutu 2019 21:32:02

Common word for "left" is "maldekstra". If you need short word use "liva"

MiMalamasLaAnglan (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 15 Gitugutu 2019 01:46:50

Ok. I guess that I will use liva. It is a much better word than maldekstra.

Dankegon!

Ĉu ie interrete troviĝas listo de la mal-vortoj kiel mava, liva, lanta, ktp?

sergejm (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 15 Gitugutu 2019 05:03:06

Tiaj vortoj estas en ordinara vortaro, ekz. en ReVo. Sed tie mankas ligo de maldekstra al liva, do trovi tiajn vortojn estas malfacile.
Ĉu estas ie vortaro de sinonimoj kaj antonimoj?

thyrolf (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 15 Gitugutu 2019 08:33:50

https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonimo

Tamen mi preferas:

https://uea.org/vikio/Superfluaj_Vortoj

La esenco de Esperanto estas, ke oni povas ĝin rapide lerni. Se vi volas lerni lingvon kun multaj vortoj, provu interlingua-n aŭ eĉ la francan. Lingvo kun tre multaj vortoj estas la araba, laŭ mia scio. Lernu tiun.

MiMalamasLaAnglan (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 15 Gitugutu 2019 18:34:36

thyrolf:https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonimo

Tamen mi preferas:

https://uea.org/vikio/Superfluaj_Vortoj

La esenco de Esperanto estas, ke oni povas ĝin rapide lerni. Se vi volas lerni lingvon kun multaj vortoj, provu interlingua-n aŭ eĉ la francan. Lingvo kun tre multaj vortoj estas la araba, laŭ mia scio. Lernu tiun.
Dankegon! Mi lernos tiujn vortojn kaj uzos iujn (sed ne ĉiujn) el ili.

Demando: Ĉe la Vikipedia paĝo mi vidis vorton "men" (malo de "pli"). Ĉu tio vere estas vorto?

Metsis (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 16 Gitugutu 2019 08:00:29

Although I generally agree, that most of the superfluaj vortoj on UEA's list are indeed superfluaj, I understand, that in some situations some of them are useful. For instance

liva
I think, that there are very strong arguments for this. Many people mix left and right already in their native language, let alone in a foreign language. The risk of mixing is greater in Esperanto, because of the forms dekstra and maldekstra are so close to each other. Furthermore in a noisy environment one can have a hard time to hear the difference. This can be fatal ,say, in traffic, where a clear, short word can save someone's life.

So, when giving orders, either in speech or in signs, liva is appropriate. In other cases use the standard maldekstra.

ovri
For same reason many people tend to mix fermi and malfermi. Which one is to open and which to close? Heck, even highly ranked UEA officials get these wrong from time to time (yes, I've personally heard this in an official speech). I myself don't use the word ovri, perhaps it's too French to my taste, but I understand the need; wouldn't his be a good opportunity to loan from somewhere else? Like from Swahili, funguafungui, or from Japanese, akeakei ?

ŭesto
While I can memorize the word oriento (my native language doesn't use an even slightly resembling word), it quite often takes a noticeable moment for me figure out the opposite direction (nope, no help from the native language here either; and yes, I have used the word maloriento a couple of times). Being a western movie fan ŭesto is more automatic.

PS. Did you notice that among superfluaj vortoj is the word superflua itself? ridego.gif

Altebrilas (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 16 Gitugutu 2019 08:40:13

Tamen, ŝajnas esti kelkaj strangaĵojn en tiu listo de t.n. superfluaj vortoj:
budĝeto budxeto
bufo virrano
Pri "maldekstra", mi iam aŭdis, dum internacia renkontiĝo, en la danca aŭ gimnatika parto de la programo : "dekstre! ... malde!", por konservi la nombron da silaboj. Ĉu "live" preferindas?

Pri "ŭesto", ĉu la esperantistaj buŝoj povas prononci "ŭ" antaŭ konsonanto? Iuj diras, ke ne.

MiMalamasLaAnglan (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 16 Gitugutu 2019 15:28:44

Metsis:Although I generally agree, that most of the superfluaj vortoj on UEA's list are indeed superfluaj, I understand, that in some situations some of them are useful. For instance

liva
I think, that there are very strong arguments for this. Many people mix left and right already in their native language, let alone in a foreign language. The risk of mixing is greater in Esperanto, because of the forms dekstra and maldekstra are so close to each other. Furthermore in a noisy environment one can have a hard time to hear the difference. This can be fatal ,say, in traffic, where a clear, short word can save someone's life.

So, when giving orders, either in speech or in signs, liva is appropriate. In other cases use the standard maldekstra.

ovri
For same reason many people tend to mix fermi and malfermi. Which one is to open and which to close? Heck, even highly ranked UEA officials get these wrong from time to time (yes, I've personally heard this in an official speech). I myself don't use the word ovri, perhaps it's too French to my taste, but I understand the need; wouldn't his be a good opportunity to loan from somewhere else? Like from Swahili, funguafungui, or from Japanese, akeakei ?

ŭesto
While I can memorize the word oriento (my native language doesn't use an even slightly resembling word), it quite often takes a noticeable moment for me figure out the opposite direction (nope, no help from the native language here either; and yes, I have used the word maloriento a couple of times). Being a western movie fan ŭesto is more automatic.

PS. Did you notice that among superfluaj vortoj is the word superflua itself? ridego.gif
Swahili is even more confusing that Esperanto about opening and closing. Kufunga means "to open" and kufungua means to close. Isn't there already a word aperti for "to open"? Maybe it's intransitive and that's why aperta means "open" as an adjective.

Doesn't okcidento mean "west"?

Metsis (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 16 Gitugutu 2019 17:33:59

MiMalamasLaAnglan:
Swahili is even more confusing that Esperanto about opening and closing. Kufunga means "to open" and kufungua means to close. Isn't there already a word aperti for "to open"? Maybe it's intransitive and that's why aperta means "open" as an adjective.
Quite possibly you're right about Swahili. I don't know it. One of the arguments against Esperanto is, that its vocabulary is almost exclusively from languages of the European branch of the Indoeuropean languages, and then claim it's international (yes, I'm in that group). However Esperanto changes and one way is by adopting new roots, so there are people, who say that new roots should foremost come from other languages than Euro-IEs. There are plenty to choose from: diverse Chinese, Swahili (the international language of East Africa), diverse Arabic, Japanese, Malay… Each with at least 100 million L2 speakers.

MiMalamasLaAnglan:Doesn't okcidento mean "west"?
Yes, it does. I was saying, that it's hard for me even to remember the "easier" word of the pair, oriento. To remember the opposite direction would be hell of lot easier, if it were ŭesto.

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