English modality in Esperanto.
글쓴이: Solulo, 2011년 9월 11일
글: 45
언어: English
erinja (프로필 보기) 2011년 9월 16일 오후 12:06:50
In Esperanto, if I were to want to express those ideas (not an exact translation of the English words, but of the meanings to get across), I would likely say:
1. Kiam vi alvenos hejmen, la lavado jam finiĝos. [understood through context that it's me who did this washing; with complex verbs, perhaps I'd say that as "mi jam estos finlavinta ĉion"]
2. Kiam vi alvenos hejmen, mi jam lavos dum kvin minutoj.
[with complex verbs, I'd say it as "mi jam estos lavanta dum kvin minutoj]
Chainy (프로필 보기) 2011년 9월 16일 오후 1:28:26
erinja:I'm not sure about that sentence. Something is not very clear about it. I doubt that such a sentence can mean that the washing will finish before the arrival. I feel the 'jam' emphasizes that the change of state revolves around the point of arrival, rather than at some later time after the arrival.
1. Kiam vi alvenos hejmen, la lavado jam finiĝos.
"jam + -os" somehow doesn't seem enough.
In this case, I would certainly use the complex form. If I really wanted to use the simple form then I would make a sentence with 'antaŭ ol':
"Antaŭ ol vi alvenos, mi [fin]lavos la vazojn"
sudanglo (프로필 보기) 2011년 9월 18일 오전 11:57:46
The 'iĝ' seems to imply a less personalized action.
Kiu rompis mian preferatan teleron? Mi ne rompis ĝin, ĝi rompiĝis.
The complex forms are there as a resource in Esperanto, it seems perverse not to use them when they offer a neat solution.
Mi promesas, la vazoj estos lavitaj antaŭ ol vi alvenos, ne maltrankviliĝu.
Chainy (프로필 보기) 2011년 9월 18일 오후 12:14:38
erinja:1. Kiam vi alvenos hejmen, la lavado jam finiĝos.PMEG gives a better explanation of why 'jam' is not enough in such a sentence:
"Oni atentu, ke jam ne ĉiam sufiĉas por montri antaŭtempecon: Ili jam manĝis, kiam mi alvenis. = Ili jam komencis manĝi (estis manĝantaj)... aŭ Ili jam finis manĝi (estis manĝintaj)... Se jam ne estas sufiĉe klara, oni uzu (jam) antaŭe."So, for the sentence that we're discussing, the two options seem to be:
1. Kiam vi alvenos hejmen, mi [jam] antaŭe lavos la vazojn.
2. Kiam vi alvenos hejmen, mi jam estos lavinta la vazojn.
- In the first sentence it's possible to say just 'antaŭe' without 'jam', but people often use 'jam antaŭe' together.
- In the second sentence, it's not necessary to add 'antaŭe' because the complex verb form clearly indicates that the washing up will have finished before your arrival.
The PMEG quote is taken from here (see under the third box of example sentences)
Chainy (프로필 보기) 2011년 9월 18일 오후 12:19:41
sudanglo:Yes, I agree that 'la lavado finiĝos' sounds less personalized, rather detached/distant.
The 'iĝ' seems to imply a less personalized action.