Rik Dalton - Interlingua revised vs. Esperanto & Ido
de qwertz, 2011-septembro-18
Mesaĝoj: 42
Lingvo: English
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2011-septembro-19 16:07:52
.I think language-creators from now on need training in this concept of phonoaesthetics
(a course in realism would do wonders too, but then you'd probably push it too far and end up with a bunch of cynics).But I have to say when it comes to phonoaesthetics or whatever technical word we're gonna use for this, Esperanto has grown on me. In the conlangs I've been slowly working on for what might one day turn into a fully fledged universe for a story idea of mine (haha, that's being optimistic), I haven't necessarily been inspired by Esperanto, nor if I were in Zamenhoff's shoes would I have created the same language, but I feel I can now appreciate the sound and texture Esperanto as if it were a native language of someone, unlike some people on the net, who either idolise it at the disadvantage of every other language, or demonise it for the sake of every other language (not sure how that works!).
bartlett22183 (Montri la profilon) 2011-septembro-20 17:02:20
sudanglo:The link that Qwertz gave seems to be written in very clear English and well argued in detail. I suspected that Interlingua was impractical, and had no idea how much so. Thank you Qwertz.My own take on Interlingua is much different. No, I do not consider Interlingua impractical at all, at least for some people. I don't think it was ever intended as "world interlanguage." Perhaps somewhat differently from some people here, I myself have read a lot of Interlingua, participated in Interlingua internet forums, and even written some of it and done a preliminary translation of a short fictional piece into it (although I never had a chance to finish that).
Having been around the international auxiliary language "movement" (such as it is) for many years, my conclusion is that what is "difficult" or even "impractical" to one person is on the contrary "easy" or "eminently practical" to another. In the old saying, One man's meat is another man's poison. I have made three attempts to learn Esperanto on my own (i.e., in isolation), and I must admit in all candor that I still find Esperanto at times confusing and even baffling. I just can't seem to master it. On a passive level, however, I have found Interlingua much easier to understand.
When it comes to adult learners -- until such times as the millennium arrives and young children around the world are taught one auxiliary language, pace Mario Pei -- some will find IAL A to be easy while others find it difficult, and those others will find IAL B to be easy while the first find it difficult. I see no way around this.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2011-septembro-21 01:24:20
razlem:I also like how Interlingua sounds. It's definitely more fluid than Esperanto (which is why, I think, it's difficult to find good EO music).I doubt this very much. That is, I don't believe that the fluidity of a language affects the quality of its music. I've heard great songs in languages that I didn't especially like the sound of, and vice versa.
The problem with Esperanto's music is that we have a relatively small community with relatively few musicians compared to a larger language. No one can make a full-time living off of Esperanto music, so much of the music is amateurish. We just don't have enough people to produce a lot of high quality stuff.
Incidentally, this is probably why you don't see a lot of Olympic medals from tiny countries like Malta or San Marino. If your population is tiny compared to other populations, you usually don't have a big enough pool of people to produce someone with a really outstanding talent.
razlem (Montri la profilon) 2011-septembro-21 02:36:45
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2011-septembro-21 04:38:40
bartlett22183:When it comes to adult learners -- until such times as the millennium arrives and young children around the world are taught one auxiliary language, pace Mario Pei -- some will find IAL A to be easy while others find it difficult, and those others will find IAL B to be easy while the first find it difficult. I see no way around this.I think it's safe to say that multilingualism is always gonna be needed. Not necessarily a bad thing if most of the "multi-lingu-" part is made up of easy to speak language, and if it helps promote a healthy public interest in foreign languages (after all, communicating with foreigners is a good way to learn how to communicate full-stop
)(Personal experience: I tried communicating with my fellow countrymen as a kid and younger uni student, and I sucked at it. After putting in almost all my time to language though, I still suck at communication, I just don't feel as bad about it
) ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2011-septembro-21 04:47:25
erinja:Incidentally, this is probably why you don't see a lot of Olympic medals from tiny countries like Malta or San Marino. If your population is tiny compared to other populations, you usually don't have a big enough pool of people to produce someone with a really outstanding talent.Totally. On the contrary, when you get a star out of a relatively small country that you otherwise don't here about, then that's your only impression of them.
(So, to be a bit brutal, while the Ido song linked to us by qwertz was great, to be honest... there isn't that much more out there! Maybe if I searched in Ido rather than English/EO I'd find more, but on the other hand, search for EO music in English and you'll find more. Also, from a capitalist point of view, Esperanto's community is full of people who have a lot of demand for a product (music), thus you can serve them whatever and they'll appreciate it, vs. the anglosphere where there's moderate demand for the product, and HEAPS of ways to get that product, so in a dog-eat-dog way the slightly worse/rougher/not as polished music (or simply perceived that way due to advertising etc) is kicked out the way by the perceived better product. EO doesn't really have a competitive environment in that regard haha)
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2011-septembro-21 12:39:01
ceigered:(So, to be a bit brutal, while the Ido song linked to us by qwertz was great, to be honest... there isn't that much more out there!I didn't like the song, it isn't my taste. But at any rate, the song appears to have been written and sung by an Esperanto speaker, probably as a sort of fun one-off. I wouldn't really call it a product of the Ido community. And since Eterne Rima does plenty of music in Esperanto, you could definitely say that the song is representative of what he does in Esperanto. If you liked it, you probably like his stuff in general. If you didn't like it, you probably don't like his stuff in general.
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2011-septembro-22 14:58:09
But interesting. Just goes to show how hard it is to find any concrete info on this sort of thing.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2011-septembro-22 16:22:32
ceigered:Oh, so it's done by Eterne Rima? I think I have heard his EO stuff before, but I don't think I like his stuff in general that much.I think he goes by at least three different names (if not more) depending on what kind of music he is doing. At any rate his youtube channel appears to have at least three different artist names, and they all sound like him, to me.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2011-septembro-22 21:20:11
I wouldn't personally distinguish between Ido and Interlingua in my treatment of these languages. The way that Ido got started was a shame but that isn't the fault of today's Ido speakers, and it isn't the fault of the language itself. I don't particularly like the sound and structure of Ido, but that's a matter of taste, of course.