Al la enhavo

"Know by heart"

de Chip, 2011-septembro-21

Mesaĝoj: 27

Lingvo: English

ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2011-septembro-25 07:53:07

Wow, thanks for the big explanations and deconstructions Ferdinand! ridulo.gif

Chainy: ELmemore
That seems to be less impacting than something describing the knowledge being linked to something as subliminal as your emotions. I'm not sure if this makes sense but:

"From memory, you have to take a right half way down that street over there. But don't quote me!"

vs.

"I know the way off by heart! You have to take a right half way down that street there, see it? The one called "Jefferson's Parade". You can't miss it, it's (enters a bit descriptive verbal-essay about the place)....."

I'd assume that such might work in other languages too, how the "heart" (or liver, in Indonesian's case okulumo.gif) is more reliable than the "brain/mind/memory". Not exactly scientific sounding, but hey, it seems to have been useful enough to get humans all the way up to now!

(Also, even with that in mind, I'd go for "permemore" - what do you think? Seems to involve more active use of the mind, meaning it can be used for memory (engaging ones memory to know something) or learning, and I dare say it might be less figurative than using "to" and "from", but that doesn't really matter that much, but don't hold me to that).

Chainy (Montri la profilon) 2011-septembro-25 08:28:50

ceigered:(Also, even with that in mind, I'd go for "permemore" - what do you think
I've seen that form used and it does make sense.

Another option would be 'laŭmemore'.

Chainy (Montri la profilon) 2011-septembro-25 08:43:27

ceigered:"From memory, you have to take a right half way down that street over there. But don't quote me!"

vs.

"I know the way off by heart! You have to take a right half way down that street there, see it? The one called "Jefferson's Parade". You can't miss it, it's (enters a bit descriptive verbal-essay about the place)....."
Yes, I know what you mean. In English "from memory" might be used when we're not so sure. But perhaps the context would make it clear just what exactly is meant by 'per-/el-/laŭ-memore'? If not, then we should use 'parker/e' (a root from the Fundamento).

For the idea of 'from memory' in your first sentence, you could say 'kiom mi memoras' (= as far as I remember).

ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2011-septembro-25 11:35:31

Chainy:
ceigered:(Also, even with that in mind, I'd go for "permemore" - what do you think
I've seen that form used and it does make sense.

Another option would be 'laŭmemore'.
Ah, good thinking amigo! And glad "permemore" works, I sort of gambled on that one okulumo.gif
Yes, I know what you mean. In English "from memory" might be used when we're not so sure. But perhaps the context would make it clear just what exactly is meant by 'per-/el-/laŭ-memore'? If not, then we should use 'parker/e' (a root from the Fundamento).

For the idea of 'from memory' in your first sentence, you could say 'kiom mi memoras' (= as far as I remember).
I like that idea. Perhaps some alternative phrasing could be "Se mi memoras ĝuste" = If I am remembering correctly", and "el/per/laŭmemorete"?

I don't know if the "et" works the way I want it to there, but the -et seems to make it sound like my memory is small, or I'm only going to my memory a little bit (meaning I could be making things up as I go along for the rest that I've forgotten okulumo.gif).

Maybe jokingly "laŭforgese" (not really, it doesn't seem to make sense rido.gif)

cFlat7 (Montri la profilon) 2011-septembro-26 00:13:39

sesarano:* The assumption that feels right to me is that adverbs are a lot like adjectives; so I'm thinking that the adjective "parkera" made from the adverbial root "parker-" should act very similarly to an adjective made from an adjectival root.
I was intrigued by this idea of an adverbial root. Out of interest I looked through all of PIV for any instances of entries with a "/e" ending, ignoring any "aux" or non-"/e" roots. I found only the following 13:

fru/e
larg/e
nelg/e
nepr/e
nett/e
oft/e
parker/e
prunt/e
spit/e
stakat/e
supr/e
telkel/e
volont/e

cFlat7 (Montri la profilon) 2011-septembro-27 03:03:28

cFlat7:
sesarano:* The assumption that feels right to me is that adverbs are a lot like adjectives; so I'm thinking that the adjective "parkera" made from the adverbial root "parker-" should act very similarly to an adjective made from an adjectival root.
I was intrigued by this idea of an adverbial root. Out of interest I looked through all of PIV for any instances of entries with a "/e" ending, ignoring any "aux" or non-"/e" roots. I found only the following 13:

fru/e
larg/e
nelg/e
nepr/e
nett/e
oft/e
parker/e
prunt/e
spit/e
stakat/e
supr/e
telkel/e
volont/e
Some of these are somewhat obscure. Others, like fru/e, nepr/e, supr/e, and volont/e are very common. One would wonder if these mightn't have been created with an 'aux' ending or something. Or, on the other hand why aren't there more 'e' adverbial roots? Why just these few?

darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2011-septembro-27 08:17:31

super-griek:
cFlat7:
cFlat7:
sesarano:* The assumption that feels right to me is that adverbs are a lot like adjectives; so I'm thinking that the adjective "parkera" made from the adverbial root "parker-" should act very similarly to an adjective made from an adjectival root.
I was intrigued by this idea of an adverbial root. Out of interest I looked through all of PIV for any instances of entries with a "/e" ending, ignoring any "aux" or non-"/e" roots. I found only the following 13:

fru/e
larg/e
nelg/e
nepr/e
nett/e
oft/e
parker/e
prunt/e
spit/e
stakat/e
supr/e
telkel/e
volont/e
Some of these are somewhat obscure. Others, like fru/e, nepr/e, supr/e, and volont/e are very common. One would wonder if these mightn't have been created with an 'aux' ending or something. Or, on the other hand why aren't there more 'e' adverbial roots? Why just these few?
I see these roots as adjectival in nature... I think PIV mentions those adverbal forms first based on their uzateco, not because of some grammatical characteristic.
some of them are adjectival in nature, but not all - imo "parkere" and "volonte" cannot often be used as adjectives except with action nouns.

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