AlexN:...Similarly English-speaking people never need cases.

Of course they do need cases and they use them:

I see her / not I see she
Give me that / not give I that

sudanglo:The natural languages develop in a largely haphazard manner, accumulating ever increasing historical baggage, and with no tradition of the preservation of systemacity.

Thank god, it'd be boring otherwise

Solulo:Anyway. I never came across an English person trying to simplfy his/her English when speaking to me much as my English might have left much to be desired.
You are very tolerant, I have to admit.

Ah rightio, I think that's because of several factors:
1) We're now taught it's rude to speak slowly or simply to foreigners, because it "patronises/is talking down to them".
2) We aren't taught what's "simple" English and what isn't (English speakers only really think in terms of "big words" and "small words" - the latter are regarded as "easier", even though the "big words" are probably more international (information, etc).
3) As a result of the above, sometimes we use giant, idiomatic strings of "small words" thinking it's easier when the "big word" is probably more systematic and easier for the foreigner (I don't really know, you'll have to tell me! ).
4) As a result of the above two, you could almost call English "A set of words with individual rules" rather than a language really controlled by grammar, so I guess we natives just don't comprehend the concept of simple grammar and sentence structure.

So, that's more or less the native viewpoint (at least the native laymen), and probably why there's a disconnect between English speakers and learners that is somewhat unique compared to other languages (like Turkish where you can seemingly create words out of nowhere with the many productive suffixes )

Qwertz:I often heard by non-German natives that they treat the German "eine, einer, eines" (English= "a") like no worth of learning

This is why I don't speak German actually - the German case system is very degraded but still intact, so it doesn't really resemble other case systems, isn't complete and sometimes rather irregular-looking, so it's hard to pick it up without learning the language properly (which I'm not doing, as you probably know with my Indonesian and Japanese).

So I think it just requires dedication for us lazy fellows who aren't focussing on it in our education and maybe some go "stuff it, too much effort for casual learning!" - Spanish on the other hand is comparatively simple, just "un", "una" (and "uno" or am I thinking Italian?) .

barat:

AlexN:...Similarly English-speaking people never need cases.

Of course they do need cases and they use them:

I see her / not I see she
Give me that / not give I that

I do not count this as 'use'. I think that 'using' is something more than following 'they say it this way' rule. Compare to vocative case in Russian. Almost every Russian-speaking person once said 'О, Господи' (O, my Lord!). If asked, in which case is this word, 90% of them would tell you 'in nominative'. Which is wrong. Also they would not be able to make vocative from any other word.
Same thing in English. Ask them in which case the word 'cat' is in the sentence 'I see cat'. Who would say 'Her see I' ? This is what I can call 'use'.

The pronouns have an 'objective form', which is what you've demonstrated. But 'case' implies declension across the majority of nouns, which is absent in modern English.

In the example you gave, "cat" is not in any case. In English, the word order dictates a word's relation to the others, unlike Russian or German, which both allow freer word orders because of accusative/dative/etc. declension.

Yes? No cases? What about that man's friend?

"In grammar, the case of a noun or pronoun is an inflectional form that indicates its grammatical function in a phrase, clause, or sentence. For example, a pronoun may play the role of subject ("I kicked the ball"), of direct object ("John kicked me"), or of possessor ("It is my ball").

Of course, English doesn't have all the cases, like latin, Russian or Polish, but talking that it has no cases at all is just an error or lack of linguistic knowledge.

barat:
Of course, English doesn't have all the cases, like latin, Russian or Polish, but talking that it has no cases at all is just an error or lack of linguistic knowledge.

There are over 50 cases in different languages. No language has them all.

AlexN:

barat:
Of course, English doesn't have all the cases, like latin, Russian or Polish, but talking that it has no cases at all is just an error or lack of linguistic knowledge.

There are over 50 cases in different languages. No language has them all.

AlexN, I don't understand you. What are you trying to prove? English DOES have cases, that is final. They are not like Russian cases, but they do exist, so you can not say, that the English do not need them. I suggest that we end this pointless discussion and get back to the topic, which is about the recognition of some awkward use of Esperanto.

Amike, Jurek.

barat:
AlexN, I don't understand you. What are you trying to prove?

Probably you do not understand the difference between 'has' and 'use'. English has (some kind of) cases, but English-speaking people never use them. I told you what I mean by the word 'use' applied to the language constructs: ability to take a rule and to apply it to completely new and unknown situation. For example, take any non-english word (examples were already provided). Can one make plural from it ? Definitely. The same with dative case ? No.
So, English-speakers can USE grammatical number, but can not USE grammatical case.
This is completely on-topic (see p. 1)
Now, what you are trying to tell us ? That English HAS some remnants of the Old English case system ? I know it already.

ceigered:
1) We're now taught it's rude to speak slowly or simply to foreigners, because it "patronises/is talking down to them".

Please note that in Europe English teachers know two variations of English accent: BBC British and Eastern American. So, if you are from Australia, Southern US or Canada, please speak slower. In case you speak Cockney, Irish or Scotch, please use Esperanto even if other person does not know it.

ceigered:
2) We aren't taught what's "simple" English and what isn't (English speakers only really think in terms of "big words" and "small words" - the latter are regarded as "easier", even though the "big words" are probably more international (information, etc).

This is really interesting topic - what subset of a language is the easiest or most understandable for foreigners. 'Small words' are taught at school, "big words" are more likely to have counterparts in other languages. Probably Esperanto is the answer. There is a good collection of common words.

ceigered:
I don't really know, you'll have to tell me!

Could you provide an example, please.