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Gender Neutrality...

ya Kalantir, 15 Oktoba 2011

Ujumbe: 162

Lugha: English

erinja (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 18 Oktoba 2011 2:37:28 alasiri

darkweasel:
erinja:I would make "smile" a separate root from "laugh". It works fine as "rideto" but a smile is really not a small laugh, so the logic fails there.
do you like "ghojlipumo"? ridulo.gif
No ridulo.gif

I use "rideto" with no problem. It's a silly word but I use it, it has practically evolved into ridet/o in my mind.

The only problem is when I really want to say "chuckle" or "small laugh", and I just say "eta rido", since rideto is already taken.

johmue (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 18 Oktoba 2011 2:56:57 alasiri

erinja:
darkweasel:
erinja:I would make "smile" a separate root from "laugh". It works fine as "rideto" but a smile is really not a small laugh, so the logic fails there.
do you like "ghojlipumo"? ridulo.gif
No ridulo.gif

I use "rideto" with no problem. It's a silly word but I use it, it has practically evolved into ridet/o in my mind.

The only problem is when I really want to say "chuckle" or "small laugh", and I just say "eta rido", since rideto is already taken.
The "Hernusanda dialekto" also has a dedicated root for "smile": "tabasam-"

marcuscf (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 22 Oktoba 2011 9:33:41 alasiri

ceigered:One problem I've already noticed - if some people are using things like "edzo" gender neutrally, how can we tell them apart from people who aren't?

I saw on the EO forums a male refer to their "edzo" - but was their edzo a male or female? The traditional analysis is "male", but you'd expect a male to marry a *female*, but then again gay rights etc make it extremely hard to discern these sorts of things.

Thus the confusion!
I don't think anyone (currently) would/should use "edzo" as neutral in a sentence that describes a concrete and specific case.

However, I think it's possible and maybe even desirable to employ "edzo" as neuter in abstract cases or in compounds, such as:

- In sentences with “oni”, e.g. “onia edzo” instead of “onia edz(in)o”.

- Edziĝi/edziĝinta as simple and direct translations for marry/married. I think the words edziĝinta/geedziĝintaj/edziniĝinta suffer from information overload.

lgg (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 23 Oktoba 2011 1:07:16 asubuhi

jean-luc:I know nobody who would ask English to change its pronunciation or Chinese to change its writing, so I don't understand why someone would ask Eo to be changed...
English and Chinese are the languages in their own right. Esperanto is a child and should behave like adults (people who speak adult languages natively) tell it to.

Without cardinal break it is not possible for international language of Esperanto to break out of the crevice where it was all those 125 years.

Happily when eo will acquire real human native speakers, 'untouchable Fundament' will fly into latrine, and new, reformed, human language will be established. To fight the natural tendencies for language improvements is so fruitless as stopping a tank by your own self.

RiotNrrd (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 23 Oktoba 2011 3:26:35 asubuhi

lgg:To fight the natural tendencies for language improvements is so fruitless as stopping a tank by your own self.
But... that would be impossible.

ceigered (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 23 Oktoba 2011 7:46:51 asubuhi

RiotNrrd:
lgg:To fight the natural tendencies for language improvements is so fruitless as stopping a tank by your own self.
But... that would be impossible.
Which it is (impossible)... if you deconstruct lgg's wording so it doesn't seem quite as inspiring as it's written.

Pity in practice it's not really that interesting or inspiring.

ceigered (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 23 Oktoba 2011 4:32:34 alasiri

A holistic summary of this broad and problematic topic can be expressed as "meh" rido.gif

sudanglo (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 23 Oktoba 2011 10:32:24 alasiri

Erinja, I think I saw 'chuckle' translated as duonrido, somewhere. But I agree, ones natural inclination would be to see rideti as chuckle.

maratonisto (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 27 Oktoba 2011 4:02:12 alasiri

The genders in esperanto are good as are. But I would support a gender reform with iĉ suffiĉ. They can for example declare the iĉ forms correct too, then vir- and ge- prefixes may became archaisms but right.

Kalantir (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 27 Oktoba 2011 5:37:12 alasiri

maratonisto:The genders in esperanto are good as are. But I would support a gender reform with iĉ suffiĉ. They can for example declare the iĉ forms correct too, then vir- and ge- prefixes may became archaisms but right.
ge- still makes sense to use even with the addition of -icx because of words like "parents" or just for clarifying that both genders are represented when referring to siblings or people in general

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