讯息： 11
语言: English
BlackOtaku (显示个人资料) 2011年10月24日下午11:36:11
I recently got back into my Esperanto studies by starting to read through Vere aŭ Fantazie; I've been getting through pretty well so far! There's just one line in the fourth story (Serĉas leteran amikon) that has me utterly stumped:
Ĉe kelkaj viroj li eĉ preskaŭ sentis, ke ili dezirus kapti lian belecon kaj ĝin propigi al si. Ĝis malamo tio kelkfoje iris. Tial al Ivo ne plaĉis la propra neordinara beleco.The best I can make out of this is this:
With some men he even almost felt, that they would want to capture his beauty and make it their own. Until hate that sometimes went. So Ivo's own inordinary beauty did not please him.Can anyone help me understand what meaning the line "Ĝis malamo tio kelkfoje iris." is supposed to convey?
UUano (显示个人资料) 2011年10月25日上午12:41:22
BlackOtaku:Can anyone help me understand what meaning the line "Ĝis malamo tio kelkfoje iris." is supposed to convey?Hello there.
I haven't yet read/studied "Vere aŭ Fantazie". However, in this sentence I understood ĝis to mean "[even] as far as". So I would probably translate it: This sometimes [even] led [him]as far as [self-]hatred.
I know that's a lot of bracketed information, but I couldn't think of a more succinct way at the moment to convey the phrase's meaning in English. I'll think about it and come back later.
Ĝis!
ceigered (显示个人资料) 2011年10月25日上午1:01:28
Ĉe kelkaj viroj li eĉ preskaŭ sentis, ke ili dezirus kapti lian belecon kaj ĝin propigi al si. Ĝis malamo tio kelkfoje iris. Tial al Ivo ne plaĉis la propra neordinara beleco.With some men he even almost felt that he wanted to take their beauty and make it his own. This sometimes went up to the point of hatred (due to intense jealousy). Because of this, Ivo was not pleased by his own, unordinary beauty::.
(this last phrase I'm feeling on the fence about - could be "Ivo was not pleased by thir own unordinary beauty", but I'm not sure how "la propra" works in these cases - I assume it merely bends its meaning according to context, and since I don't know what the text says about Ivo's looks, I'll leave this disclaimer here
) 
BlackOtaku (显示个人资料) 2011年10月25日上午1:32:11
erinja:"la propra" always refers back to the subject. Since Ivo was the subject of that clause, "la propra" would refer to Ivo. It's Ivo's own beauty that he doesn't like too much.Yep, Ivo is the beautiful one here, 'shines like sunlight', 'masterpiece of nature' and all that. (what a terrible problem to have, ĉu ne?
)Thanks for the clarification guys.
Miland (显示个人资料) 2011年10月25日上午11:51:45
BlackOtaku:Can anyone help me understand what meaning the line "Ĝis malamo tio kelkfoje iris." is supposed to convey?Tio can refer to the content of a clause as a whole. In my view, from the context tio refers to the clause following ke in the previous sentence, namely ili dezirus kapti lian belecon kaj ĝin proprigi al si, "they wished to steal his good looks for themselves". Thus, in my view it refers to the envy of others, that went as far as hate sometimes.
qwertz (显示个人资料) 2011年10月25日下午7:45:13
ceigered:Sorry, what means "T/L"?
Cheers for that, I'll leave my T/L as is then