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Explaining Esperanto to Nesamideanoj

od BlackOtaku, 29. oktober 2011

Sporočila: 80

Jezik: English

ceigered (Prikaži profil) 01. november 2011 07:13:29

razlem:Sounds cool, I want to see it when you're done rideto.gif
Actually, I'll show you how it is thus far: spread sheet with basic mutations.

By no means final, and without the grammar rules there it's sorta cryptic, and there are all these compound words with morphemes squished up together that are getting on my nerves (e.g. buren and mugen (racial nicknames, it's hardcore like that lango.gif), might become buryen and mugyen, which might futher mutate to burzen and mujan (buĵan, muĝen). Also note it's by no means meant for IAL work, although I'm sure someone could use it for that (what IAL needs a word like "shubôn" that means "east/spirit who carries up the sun"? rido.gif)

Conlanging is a great way to appreciate the work Zamenhoff must have put into Esperanto. Regarding the title, maybe that's one way we can explain the monumental task of actually creating a language? "Now don't think games like Pig Latin, think about if one person made English, OK? Now imagine trying to convince people to speak it? That's what Zam did!"

sudanglo (Prikaži profil) 01. november 2011 11:51:05

think about if one person made English, OK? Now imagine trying to convince people to speak it? That's what Zam did
Ooh! Zamenhof tried to persuade people to learn English - cool!

Clarity! clarity! Ceiger. I am sure if you had conceived that sentence in Esperanto it wouldn't have been ambiguous.

Here's your homework. Please re-write in clear English.

One witness told the commissioners that she had seen sexual intercourse taking place between two parked cars in front of her house

qwertz (Prikaži profil) 01. november 2011 12:29:08

Kuru, ceigered, kuru! Still other matters to clarify/ at the agenda. Rush together with the movement. "We" - need - results. Instantly. okulumo.gif

ceigered (Prikaži profil) 01. november 2011 12:49:28

sudanglo:
think about if one person made English, OK? Now imagine trying to convince people to speak it? That's what Zam did
Ooh! Zamenhof tried to persuade people to learn English - cool!

Clarity! clarity! Ceiger. I am sure if you had conceived that sentence in Esperanto it wouldn't have been ambiguous.

Here's your homework. Please re-write in clear English.

One witness told the commissioners that she had seen sexual intercourse taking place between two parked cars in front of her house
One witness told the commissioners that she had seen sexual intercourse taking place between two parked cars in front of her house rido.gif It's clear enough for me!

To be honest, both of these examples are just as ambiguous in Esperanto. It's intentially ambiguous since I've left out context, as this article is sorta missing (mind you, it wouldn't be an assumption outa left field to assume that the cars were parked in front of her house in some manner - either she was standing outside the front of her house, in which case the act likely had to be in front of the house to be in her line of sight, or she was somewhere else, and she saw it happening in front of her house. Either way, we don't care about where she was, we want the juicy details on the intercourse like the voyeurs we are!)

As for Zamenhof teaching English, easy way to clear up that misunderstanding: "That's what Zamenhof did.. with Esperanto".

If they need further clarification, they need to brush up on their English history first okulumo.gif

The elde Zamenhof and his maken of the Englishe speche. Ye wolde haven thoght it strange, that a Polishe man wolde maken a reard for a band of Englishers! But the truth is that Zamenhof really made English mid his merrye men (one was ynamed "Sir Robin"), and yave hit till hem, the Englishers.

*phew*, that's enough writing Middle English compositions for me just to change history!

qwertz (Prikaži profil) 01. november 2011 12:56:49

In my opinion, often someones beliefs build by personal experiences hinders or motivates to find ambiguousness. Of course thats not possible everyday because of everyday running business. Questioning for ambiguousness needs to play around or making proof of concept with someones own beliefs. Which of course needs some personal playfulness and "over dosis" of phantasy. Maybe it could be named belief creativity or something like that.

razlem (Prikaži profil) 01. november 2011 15:06:06

ceigered:
razlem:Sounds cool, I want to see it when you're done rideto.gif
Actually, I'll show you how it is thus far: spread sheet with basic mutations.
Nifty! Do you have phonological rules set up yet? If it's for a conculture, you could use some cool rarer sounds.

ceigered (Prikaži profil) 01. november 2011 17:18:50

razlem:
ceigered:
razlem:Sounds cool, I want to see it when you're done rideto.gif
Actually, I'll show you how it is thus far: spread sheet with basic mutations.
Nifty! Do you have phonological rules set up yet? If it's for a conculture, you could use some cool rarer sounds.
Phonological rules are lying around in my head and on various scrap pieces of paper. Pronunciation is going to be relatively simple despite its pseudo-con-culture-esque nature (there is a related project on that which pretty much gets rid of all consonants, and if I make an older version of this language it'll have a lot more consonant clusters and that slight palatalisation you see in Russian (t'). As it stands it will be slightly less complex than Esperanto in pronunciation (shouldn't be a h nor hx).

I'll get you a private message update later once I've got everything else done that is uni related as to not frustrate the non-conlanger forum readers haha.

Miland (Prikaži profil) 01. november 2011 20:41:15

ceigered:Now, I need to .. write my .. Indonesian music essay ridulo.gif
Is that an essay on Indonesian music written in English (anglalingva tezo pri indonezia muziko), or an essay about music written in Indonesian {indonezelingva tezo pri muziko), or a musical composition, Indonesian style (indonezestila muzikaĵo)? My guess is the first. rido.gif

ceigered (Prikaži profil) 02. november 2011 02:47:39

Miland:
ceigered:Now, I need to .. write my .. Indonesian music essay ridulo.gif
Is that an essay on Indonesian music written in English (anglalingva tezo pri indonezia muziko), or an essay about music written in Indonesian {indonezelingva tezo pri muziko), or a musical composition, Indonesian style (indonezestila muzikaĵo)? My guess is the first. rido.gif
The first okulumo.gif They're pretty much all as bad though. Actually, I'd probably prefer to make an Indonesian song, that'd be fun and I'd get instant gratification from it!

sudanglo (Prikaži profil) 02. november 2011 13:10:33

The pointless and somewhat lunatic hobby of conlanging, only serves, in my mind, to confirm that the best way to explain Esperanto is language simplification.

In other words, Esperanto is a language in which to a maximum extent all those features of natural languages, that make them so difficult to learn in adulthood have been removed, without overly suppressing expressive power.

Any fresh attempt to produce a language which is going to be simple to learn in adulthood will end up adopting the principles of simplification which Esperanto already incorporates.

Like rational spelling, adoption of international words, easy phonology, regular accentuation, avoidance of idiom, word building, simple marking of parts of speech and so on.

In addition Eseranto has been subject to 100-plus years of practical testing to see what works in an international environment and what doesn't.

Starting from scratch, all over again, hardly makes any sense if you are serious about getting your language widely adopted.

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