Meddelelser: 43
Sprog: English
acdibble (Vise profilen) 28. nov. 2011 20.43.31
Chainy:I'm trying to make sense of this. If 'danci' is used as a noun then it becomes 'dancado' or 'danco' which will then be described with an adjective, 'facilA'."A dance" would be "danco". "Dancing" is "dancado".
It is easy to dance. = Danci estas facile.
Dancing is easy. = Dancado estas facila.
Bruso:In English we say "to dance is easy" not "to dance is easily".We would say, "It is easy to dance." Esperanto uses a dummy subject in this situation; therefore, we use an adverb.
It is dangerous to stay with a lion. = Resti kun leono estas danĝere.
Chainy (Vise profilen) 28. nov. 2011 20.49.44
Estus bonЕ, se...
Tio estus bonА, se...
You can easily see the change between the e- and the a-ending. But in Russian, you can't see the difference, as you have:
Было бы хорошО, если...
Это было бы хорошО, если...
darkweasel (Vise profilen) 28. nov. 2011 20.52.37
Chainy:I interpreted "used as nouns" according to what Bruso wrote in the first paragraph of his posting.darkweasel:I'm trying to make sense of this. If 'danci' is used as a noun then it becomes 'dancado' or 'danco' which will then be described with an adjective, 'facilA'.Bruso:So in Esperanto (and Slavic languages? All of them?) verbals take adverbs as modifiers, even when they're used as nouns?In Esperanto yes, I don’t know about Slavic languages.
Bruso (Vise profilen) 17. apr. 2012 19.15.21
(Beats self with stick)
Cidiri al Dio estas kutimE ..
Cidiri al Dio estas kutimE ..
Cidiri al Dio estas kutimE ..
Cidiri al Dio estas kutimE ..
Cidiri al Dio estas kutimE ..
Cidiri al Dio estas kutimE ..
Cidiri al Dio estas kutimE ..
Cidiri al Dio estas kutimE ..
Cidiri al Dio estas kutimE ..
(100 times)
Kirilo81 (Vise profilen) 18. apr. 2012 11.57.08
But I think this whole debate here is useless, for
1) Esperanto is not English and it needn't have the same rules as it. As an infinitive has both verbal and nominal characteristics neither the way of English nor of Esperanto are more or less "logical".
2) there would be no problem if you wouldn't mix up different categories like "noun" and "subject", which are independent. If a verb is a subject, it still is a verb, it doesn't become more "nouny".
Chainy (Vise profilen) 18. apr. 2012 13.08.05
I've lost the thread now, but a native Russian speaker recently said in another thread here that 'легко' (liĥkO) in the Russian sentence 'Танцевать - это легко' (TAncevat - Eta liĥkO), is indeed an adverbial form. Proof of this is that it is impossible to replace 'легко' (liĥkO) with 'легкое' (ljOĥkoe).razlem:In your sentence, легко is describing это, not танцевать. The word легко is an adverb, but it is also the short form of лёгкий, the adjective. In this context, it is the latter.chainy:I think you might have a good point there. I often thought that a phrase such as "Было бы хорошо, если..." was similar to the usage of the adverbial ending in Esperanto 'Estus bonE, se', but now you've got me thinking that there's a kind of unsaid 'это' in the Russian sentence, which, as you said, would explain the o-ending in легко. Seems like a reasonable argument, whether it is right or not!
AlexN (Vise profilen) 18. apr. 2012 13.45.04
I can only add that in Russian 'это' is completely unnecessary. One may say
'Танцевать легко'. There is a minor difference between 'Танцевать - это легко' and 'Танцевать легко', but it is not really meaningful.
Bruso (Vise profilen) 18. apr. 2012 13.50.52
Kirilo81:Esperanto is not English and it needn't have the same rules as it.True enough. I just think this is going to be one of the more counter-intuitive rules for me.
2) there would be no problem if you wouldn't mix up different categories like "noun" and "subject", which are independent. If a verb is a subject, it still is a verb, it doesn't become more "nouny".Actually, it does. "Cidiri al Dio" ("Thee-thou-ing God" is the
best translation I can do in English) is a noun phrase.
(Just as a noun can become "adjectivy" in English, e.g. "baseball game" where "baseball" modifies game. "Matĉo de basbalo" in Esperanto, I would think, where "de basbalo" is an adjectival phrase.)
If I were using cidiri as a main verb, e.g., mi cidiras kutime al Dio, I would never have made the mistake.
Kirilo81 (Vise profilen) 18. apr. 2012 14.05.30
Bruso:(Just as a noun can become "adjectivy" in English, e.g. "baseball game" where "baseball" modifies game. "Matĉo de basbalo" in Esperanto, I would think, where "de basbalo" is an adjectival phrase.)baseball doesn't become "adjectivy" here, too, it is just used as a modifier. It is true that adjectives are modifiers, too, but that doesn't mean that any modifier is "adjectivy", I think you wrongly ascribe features of syntactic categories to parts of speech you often find in this positions.
Hyperboreus (Vise profilen) 18. apr. 2012 16.45.55