Повідомлення: 9
Мова: English
Miland (Переглянути профіль) 5 серпня 2007 р. 21:44:29
"Se konsideri la rapidecon de la nuna disvastigxo, la tuta lando estos malsana pli frue ol uzebla vakcino disponeblos."
The question is, how to translate Se konsideri. The context suggests something like 'If one were to consider', so that the phrase might be a contraction.
Page 395 of PMEG (in chapter 27 I-Verboj, section 6 kvazau cxefverboj) does indeed suggest that se+infinitive X-i = se+(oni or other pronoun)+X-u, so that Se konsideri can be expanded Se ni konsideru, and so translated as I suggest.
This point is not in the examples in section 86 of La tuta Esperanto, though it appears as the fourth example in section 20.2.5 of the Detala lernu!-gramatiko.
erinja (Переглянути профіль) 6 серпня 2007 р. 01:40:50
Not to say that it shouldn't become more common!
I might translate it as "Se oni konsiderus" ("if one would consider") but I think "se ni konsideru" is an equally good alternate rendering.
It is a rare usage, which is why "La tuta Esperanto" probably doesn't include it.
The detailed lernu grammar is essentially an abbreviated form of the PMEG, so those two sources will always agree with one another.
trojo (Переглянути профіль) 9 серпня 2007 р. 13:57:24
Miland:Reading a well-known short novel by Claude Piron I have come across the following sentence about a new disease:If I were translating it into English I would probably render se konsideri as "considering" or "regarding" (So, "considering the speed of the current spread,..."). The construction "if one would consider the speed of the current spread" just seems kind of awkward in English.
"Se konsideri la rapidecon de la nuna disvastigxo, la tuta lando estos malsana pli frue ol uzebla vakcino disponeblos."
The question is, how to translate Se konsideri. The context suggests something like 'If one were to consider', so that the phrase might be a contraction.
Miland (Переглянути профіль) 9 серпня 2007 р. 14:53:14
trojo: If I were translating it into English I would probably render se konsideri as "considering" or "regarding"Yes; I do not know whether se konsideri is a contraction (more comfortable for E-o apologists), or an example of an E-o idiom, which has arise out of popular usage, but is not a logical consequence of the grammar. If anyone knows, please tell us!
lagwagon555 (Переглянути профіль) 10 серпня 2007 р. 05:24:36
Miland (Переглянути профіль) 10 серпня 2007 р. 08:00:15
lagwagon555:I dont know if its just where I was bought up, but saying 'If, to consider...' makes sense. Is this just me?That's a very interesting observation, because I don't recall seeing such a phrase in English in print. Does it occur in any film that you know? My question now is, is this an NZ English idiom, or is it an import from a European language? The latter would explain how it got readily taken up by E-o.
lagwagon555 (Переглянути профіль) 10 серпня 2007 р. 13:48:24
To be honest, I cant even remeber saying it myself. But if a book read "If, to consider la impact of inflation on the world bond market...", I would not think twice about it.
Have I gone completely mad?
mnlg (Переглянути профіль) 10 серпня 2007 р. 14:39:06
lagwagon555:"If, to consider la impact of inflation on the world bond market...", I would not think twice about it.I would.
lagwagon555 (Переглянути профіль) 11 серпня 2007 р. 12:13:25
Yes, I think I have gone mad