Mensagens: 81
Idioma: English
sudanglo (Mostrar o perfil) 13 de dezembro de 2011 20:11:15
please bear in mind that those who have partaken of linguistic pursuits other than the one you favour have no less a right to be treated with respect.They can have as much respect as they can earn, Tom.
What I am saying is that the Esperantists are doing more than pursue some linguistic interest, and shouldn't be put in the same madhouse as the conlangers.
If Esperanto is not political then the only distinction between Esperantists and the adherents of Klingon is the level of progress we have made in developing the language and recruiting speakers.
Though that, actually, is enough anyway in itself to distinguish Esperanto from the 500 or 900 artefaritaj lingvo projektoj that Okrent refers to.
Esperanto exists for a purpose. Anybody may not agree with that purpose, but that doesn't change the fact that it is the raison d'être of Esperanto, and over the years many Esperantists have dedicated much time and energy to prepare the ground for the realisation of that purpose.
Quite possibly, at one time, the Greens drew their support from the sort of people that you can find on the fringes of, or even to some extent entrenched in, the Esperanto movement.
Yet they had a serious political purpose, now grudgingly recognised.
It behoves us to strive for a similar recognition of our political identity.
tommjames (Mostrar o perfil) 13 de dezembro de 2011 20:23:29
madhouseYou're doing it again.
It may well be worth pointing out those areas where Esperanto and it's movement differ from other constructed languages and language projects. If this is to be the tone of the discourse, however, I think you'll just do more harm than good.
Kajgiestis (Mostrar o perfil) 14 de dezembro de 2011 03:43:47
Vestitor (Mostrar o perfil) 14 de dezembro de 2011 10:18:27
Wouldn't that be like going to an Apple conference and asking where the Microsoft stand is?
Fair enough try English next if Esperanto fails between both people, but surely it has to be tried initially? If it isn't even useful at an Esperanto conference, it's best to pack up and go home.
sudanglo (Mostrar o perfil) 14 de dezembro de 2011 11:14:06
Or, is the whole of Advertising and Public Relations based on a false assumption?
erinja (Mostrar o perfil) 14 de dezembro de 2011 14:25:25
Vestitor:Why is it considered 'weird' for a person to complain that someone isn't initially addressing people in Esperanto at an Esperanto conference?Everything at the conference itself is in Esperanto, of course.
I think you misunderstood the story. The lady wasn't addressed in English at the conference; she was addressed in English by a clerk at a bookshop in downtown Copenhagen. Her complaint wasn't that the clerk didn't speak Esperanto (who could expect a random person in Copenhagen to speak Esperanto?). Her complaint was that although the clerk could speak French, the clerk addressed her in English, not French. As if the clerk could tell by looking that this lady was a French speaker!
Vestitor (Mostrar o perfil) 14 de dezembro de 2011 14:50:06
erinja (Mostrar o perfil) 14 de dezembro de 2011 15:53:31
Unfortunately the fact that she was wearing anything Esperanto at all made it obvious who she was with, and she was clearly mentally unstable. Otherwise she wouldn't have started berating me about her country making children learn English, on overhearing that I was American.
It is hardly my fault that your country's government teaches English in their schools, ma'am, and furthermore, we are at an Esperanto convention, speaking Esperanto together, so you also can't blame me personally for forcing my native language on you.
sudanglo:All the time Esperanto is bracketed with the fruit-loopery of the Conlangers, it's going to be difficult to advance the cause.I'm more worried about the fruit-loopery of some speakers of Esperanto making it difficult to advance the cause. Every Esperanto group surely has one or two members that everyone secretly hopes won't show up to public advertising events, so not to give the impression that Esperantists are weird.
1Guy1 (Mostrar o perfil) 14 de dezembro de 2011 16:44:03
erinja:Not exactly dressed as a flag, but it was clear from her clothing that she was with the Esperanto group (minimum of shirt and bag, not sure if I remember a hat or not).Alas, every group has people like that. I am a Christian & could weep at the idiocy of things (supposedly) done in the name of Christ.
(snip)
I'm more worried about the fruit-loopery of some speakers of Esperanto making it difficult to advance the cause. Every Esperanto group surely has one or two members that everyone secretly hopes won't show up to public advertising events, so not to give the impression that Esperantists are weird.
Some people also need to learn that 'more flies are won with honey than with vinegar.'
qwertz (Mostrar o perfil) 14 de dezembro de 2011 18:29:29
sudanglo:I assume you're talking about pre-Internet time means before Internet access were commercialized in the 1990s.
If Esperanto is not political then the only distinction between Esperantists and the adherents of Klingon is the level of progress we have made in developing the language and recruiting speakers.
sudanglo:Sorry about, but seems to be that this tradition is finished. At IS 2008, JES 2009, JES 2010 and JEFO-FESTO 2011 I have not seen any political activitiy you reclaim Esperanto speakers should doing by "nature"(?!). Currently political Esperanto activities simply are not present at most European Esperanto Youth events. Okay, next JES there will happen some talk with Lech Wałęsa. Someones could understand that like political activity. I don't see it that way. It will be just an interesting talk about an interesting topic (Unuiĝinta Eŭropo). Internet-minded Esperanto youth will not follow any traditional/pre-Internet Esperanto recruiting process. That folks are doing same like Internet does: svarmkomunumo means somewhat like mentality of organizing by fortune.
Esperanto exists for a purpose. Anybody may not agree with that purpose, but that doesn't change the fact that it is the raison d'être of Esperanto, and over the years many Esperantists have dedicated much time and energy to prepare the ground for the realisation of that purpose.
sudanglo:Proceeding political Esperanto activities I would recommend you to get in contact with European Federalists. That would give oportunity to check political Esperanto activities inside political field of Europe Union. So someones could get political Esperanto movement out of politic niche into political EU "business".
It behoves us to strive for a similar recognition of our political identity.