讯息： 30
语言: English
NJ Esperantist (显示个人资料) 2012年1月17日下午5:57:34
Chainy:That 'x' has been the biggest buggaboo in this context.NJ Esperantist:What would you call a 2x4 in Esperanto to be sure you are not given just anything that could be called a beam?"Trabo kun dimensioj 2 x 4 coloj/futoj". How big is this beam?!
I'm not too sure how to express the 'x', though. "Oble" doesn't seem to fit, but I might be wrong...
NJ Esperantist (显示个人资料) 2012年1月17日下午6:03:22
erinja:2x4's don't even have a true dimension of 2x4" anymore.Gotta be the most helpful answer I ever got for this question. One supposes that if you were working with a fellow carpenter Esperantist that it could be shortned to 'du-je-kvar', with the unit (cola) understood. this understandably would likely not work if you were helping out a Czech friend living in Belgium...
But since that's what they're called, you could certainly continue to call them that in Esperanto. "2-je-4-cola trabo"
erinja (显示个人资料) 2012年1月17日下午6:07:25
"per" isn't an obvious choice in my opinion, based on its root meaning. I didn't check any references before your message, but PMEG seems to suggest on its page for per that je could be a better choice in cases of expressing measurement. However neither of the pages discusses the precise situation we're discussing (nor does the page on mathematical expressions).
erinja (显示个人资料) 2012年1月17日下午6:10:39
NJ Esperantist:One supposes that if you were working with a fellow carpenter Esperantist that it could be shortned to 'du-je-kvar'I didn't include this in my original response but thinking about the situation in my head, I can easily imagine myself in an informal situation [assuming everyone present knew what a 2x4 was], saying something like "Restas malmultaj du-je-kvaroj, necesas aĉeti pli."
Chainy (显示个人资料) 2012年1月17日下午6:34:15
erinja:"per" isn't an obvious choice in my opinion, based on its root meaning. I didn't check any references before your message, but PMEG seems to suggest on its page for per that je could be a better choice in cases of expressing measurement. However neither of the pages discusses the precise situation we're discussing (nor does the page on mathematical expressions).Yes, I also hesitated with this one, so I can see why you turned to 'je'.
It's kind of surprising that PMEG missed this out on that page about mathematical expressions. It's quite a common thing to talk about, after all.
Neither NPIV2002, nor ReVo seem to include any information on this either!
PAG does mention 'per', so I suppose we should accept either form.
erinja (显示个人资料) 2012年1月17日下午7:42:31
Chainy:It's kind of surprising that PMEG missed this out on that page about mathematical expressions. It's quite a common thing to talk about, after all.I might e-mail Bertilo and ask his opinion. Maybe he'll update PMEG to include it (or who knows, maybe it's already there, simply in a section I didn't think to check)
EDIT:
I asked Bertilo's opinion. He recommends "oble". He noted, in his response, that he has received this question a number of times, and always from Americans! Very interesting. Though of course not all of this thread's active participants are Americans, so clearly this isn't a topic of interest to Americans only.
Chainy (显示个人资料) 2012年1月17日下午9:18:01
erinja:I'm trying to work out why I was/am confused about this. The dimensions do indeed show a multiplication of square blocks of inches or whatever, but... (maybe there is no 'but'..?)
EDIT:
I asked Bertilo's opinion. He recommends "oble". He noted, in his response, that he has received this question a number of times, and always from Americans! Very interesting. Though of course not all of this thread's active participants are Americans, so clearly this isn't a topic of interest to Americans only.
Did Mr. Wennergren add any more details, like how would you write it?
"Duoble-kvar-cola trabo"? Would that be clear? It seems like it might be better to keep the 'oble' separate, or is that just because I can't get the English expression out of my head?
"Trabo kun dimensioj de duoble kvar coloj" (?)
erinja (显示个人资料) 2012年1月17日下午10:21:22
However that's a simple declarative statement, "The measurement is 10 cm x 20 cm."
For a 2x4, if you wanted to use the measurement in the form of an adjective, you would link the expression of a measurement into a single word.
So:
La mezuro de la trabo estas 2 oble 4 coloj.
The measurement of the beam is 2x4 inches.
but:
Mi konstruis mian domon per 2-oble-4-colaj traboj.
I built my house using 2x4's
Sadly, "du-oble-kvaroj" doesn't have the same lovely ring to it as "du-per-kvaroj" in my idiomatic Esperanto version of "Two-by-fours".
sudanglo (显示个人资料) 2012年1月17日下午11:27:15
I would prefer 2 je 4. And I guess that this is what most Esperantists would spontaneously say, if they were in situation where they had to specify a cross-section's dimensions.
Nov-Zelandano, there is a very detailed 800 page illustrated dictionary - based on the Duden illustrations circa 1958 - that came out in the 80's.
It has all sorts of weird and wonderful tools and machinery in it, but it is out of print now, I believe.
You might be able to pick up a second-hand copy from somewhere.