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Worry about + phrase

od EldanarLambetur, 8 lutego 2012

Wpisy: 77

Język: English

EldanarLambetur (Pokaż profil) 8 lutego 2012, 16:17:49

Given the phrase "You don't need to worry about..."

Something like "Vi ne bezonas zorgi pri..."

How'd you then finish that with an entire... what's the word... clause?

So instead of:

Vi ne bezonas zorgi pri li
Vi ne bezonas zorgi pri lia libro

Something like:

You don't need to worry about me stealing your money
You don't need to worry about me becoming tired of you

Would you use "tio ke"? And what verb form is appropriate in the subclause?

Vi ne bezonas zorgi pri tio ke mi ŝtelos/ŝtelu/ŝtelus vian monon

Can you do away with "pri tio"?

Vi ne bezonas zorgi ke mi ŝtelos/ŝtelu/ŝtelus vian monon

I see a lot of use of the u-form in the Tekstaro.

Do all three verb forms make sense but give a different meaning? If so what?

goli (Pokaż profil) 8 lutego 2012, 16:49:49

Well, the phrase, for example, You don't need to worry about the bill's price I'd translate like Vi ne devas/bezonas zorgi/emociiĝi je la prezo de la kalkulo. Je is the preposition with undefined meaning, so if no preposition is suitable, you should use je. For example, Mi ne kredas je la Dio (I don't believe in God). If we said en la Dio, it would mean into the God or inside the God.
Vi ne bezonas zorgi ke mi ŝtelos/ŝtelu/ŝtelus vian monon(I'd say se mi) — there is the conditional: you don't need to care if I steal your money. So I think, you should use the conditional form ŝtelus for the equivalent of the if I stole(2-nd Conditional) or if I've stolen(3-nd Conditional), and the future form ŝtelos for if I steal(1-st Conditional). Ŝtelu is imperative and for me it sounds strange: You don't need to care that me; steal yourself's money!.
Well, I don't know esperanto well, and you should listen to more experienced esperantists, but that's my opinion about this problem. If you want to know the most correct solving, you should invent time machine and go to the past to meet Zamengof ridulo.gif

darkweasel (Pokaż profil) 8 lutego 2012, 16:57:03

EldanarLambetur:
Would you use "tio ke"? And what verb form is appropriate in the subclause?

Vi ne bezonas zorgi pri tio ke mi ŝtelos/ŝtelu/ŝtelus vian monon

Can you do away with "pri tio"?

Vi ne bezonas zorgi ke mi ŝtelos/ŝtelu/ŝtelus vian monon
Both structures are fine and I’d use the verb form ŝtelos.

EldanarLambetur (Pokaż profil) 8 lutego 2012, 18:04:14

Thanks for the replies!

I specifically am worried whether "ŝtelos" would give more this impression:

"You do not need to worry that I'm going to steal (will steal) your money"

(i.e. don't worry that your things will indeed be stolen, because e.g. you have insurance)

Given that the os-form talks about real future events, is that not the case?

Roberto12 (Pokaż profil) 8 lutego 2012, 18:08:47

Interesting. The first thing that popped into my head was "ke ...u" for the subordinate clause, but because it's governed by the preposition pri it's more complicated. I've just seen that you can make the compound prizorgi, so my best answer to the question is:

Vi ne devas prizorgi ke mi ŝtelu vian monon.

EDIT: The imperative in a subordinate clause conveys a subjunctive meaning; an indicative or conditional ending would be misleading (unless of course the thing isn't supposed to be subjunctive).

sudanglo (Pokaż profil) 8 lutego 2012, 22:12:48

Good question Eldanar.

I think it helps to break the idea into two components.

1.You don't need to worry about that.

2a. someone might steal the money
2b. someone will steal/is going to steal the money

In Esperanto, for 2b. the future tense will do

In some languages(eg French) 2a. might be rendered with a subjunctive, but I think Esperanto offers a choice here, depending on how we view the prospect of the theft. We can say 'eble ŝtelos' or 'ŝtelus', or povus ŝteli

I wouldn't use 'zorgi' for worry but some variant of maltrankvili, and you can use 'ke', or pri tio ke

So we have:

Ne maltrankvilu, ke iu ŝtelos la monon.

or more elaborately

Vi ne bezonas maltrankviliĝi pri tio, ke iu ŝtelus.. eble ŝtelos .. povus ŝteli ... la monon

Edit: here's another suggestion Ne timu, ke iu ...

oxymor (Pokaż profil) 8 lutego 2012, 23:00:32

difficult question

I would say for example : vi ne timu ke mi ŝtelus vian monon.

Because of the context, I would understand all tenses properly in your sentenses.
But if I want to analyse the tenses, here is what I understand for each tenses (I am not sure I am right).

Vi ne bezonas zorgi ke mi ŝtelus (or ŝtelontus, if you want to precise that's a future) vian monon : the sentence you want to say

Vi ne bezonas zorgi ke mi ŝtelos vian monon : I will steal your money, but don't worry about that, it's gonna be fine^^

sudanglo (Pokaż profil) 8 lutego 2012, 23:51:04

Quite right Oxymor - the original phase 'don't worry about me stealing your money' is ambiguous in English.

It covers:

don't worry that I will/might steal your money

don't worry about a theft that has happened - or is going to happen.

Ne timu, ke .. avoids this ambiguity.

EldanarLambetur (Pokaż profil) 9 lutego 2012, 00:16:48

Ooo good points thank you!

Also out of curiosity, Sudanglo, you said "I wouldn't use 'zorgi' for worry but some variant of maltrankvili"

Is this because of the "to care" (or take care) aspect of "zorgi"? I've been looking for a good solid word for "to worry" and wasn't sure about "zorgi" but wondered if it was just my Englishiness giving me the willies about "to care" and "to worry" being in the scope of the same word! ridego.gif

sudanglo (Pokaż profil) 9 lutego 2012, 12:25:22

Well, Eldnar, NPIV lists four definitions for zorgi and one of them does use 'maltrankviliĝi ' in the definition. But zorgi and maltrankvili seem to me to occupy different semantic territory.

Zorgi is more like have a concern for, than like be upset (emotional).

The one doesn't necessarily imply the other.

Mi povos tute trankvile prizorgi la infanon dum la patrino forestos.

Mi havas kelkajn zorgojn pri ĉi tiu parto de la kontrakto diris la advokato trankvile.

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