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Even though

від Ilmen, 4 березня 2012 р.

Повідомлення: 28

Мова: English

Ilmen (Переглянути профіль) 4 березня 2012 р. 18:05:55

Good evening everybody.

I would like to ask you about how to express "even though" in Esperanto. I means, "even though" when followed by a clause describing something considered as actual (not hypothetical).
For instance. In "he will come even if it rains", the part "it rains" is not an actual event. Here the sentence can be translated as "li venos eĉ okaze de pluvo".
But for a sentence like "he went out even though it was raining", the event "it was raining" was an actual event, so "okaze de" doesn't fit here.

I first thought to "eĉ kvankam pluvis", though I don't know wether it is actually adequate. Maybe "eĉ malgraŭ la pluvo"?

Any comment would be greatly appreciated. ♪
Thank you.

Hyperboreus (Переглянути профіль) 4 березня 2012 р. 18:13:37

Forigite

omid17 (Переглянути профіль) 4 березня 2012 р. 18:18:13

I think you don't need to literally translate "even though" and put "ecx" in your sentence. It is almost identical in meaning with plain though or although, only with a little more emphasis.

I would say "malgraux tio, ke..." for example:

"Li eliris malgraux tio ke pluvis"

I could also say the same thing using "kvankam":

Kvankam pluvis, li iris eksteren.

Or

Kvankam pluvis, tamen li iris eksteren.

Of course you might wanna hear the idea of a more experienced person on this.

darkweasel (Переглянути профіль) 4 березня 2012 р. 19:16:55

omid17 is right.

I’ve now tried some time to find an old post (early 2009) where erinja (?) said you shouldn’t say eĉ kvankam (from one of the first threads I read on this forum), but didn’t succeed ... rido.gif

sudanglo (Переглянути профіль) 4 березня 2012 р. 20:30:04

he went out even though it was raining
1. Li eliris eĉ malgraŭ tio, ke pluvis
2. Li eliris spite de tio, ke pluvis (spite la pluvon)
3. Kvankam pluvis, li tamen eliris.

I think I like 3. best

Dark Weasel, there are a couple of eĉ kvankam's in the New Testament.

With spite - which seems to be common in the Tekstaro - the usage seems undecided as to whether it should be followed by the accusative or not. For consistency with expressions like rilate tion or koncerne tion, it would seem preferable to say spite tion.

tommjames (Переглянути профіль) 6 березня 2012 р. 12:57:22

'Eĉ kvankam' isn't wrong per se, but if you're translating the English "even though" it may well be, as the "even" is very often (though not always) just ballast. As omid17 said, using "eĉ" will give you extra emphasis.

Ilmen (Переглянути профіль) 6 березня 2012 р. 21:33:35

Thank you all for you comments.

Spite la pluvon? I did not know that such structure was possible, interesting.

Uralo (Переглянути профіль) 6 березня 2012 р. 22:21:21

I ran the dutch translation of 'even though' (ook al) through the translator and it responded with 'eĉ se'. That makes sense, because 'eĉ se' means 'even when'. That's a synonym for 'even though', isn't it?

darkweasel (Переглянути профіль) 7 березня 2012 р. 06:42:12

Uralo:I ran the dutch translation of 'even though' (ook al) through the translator and it responded with 'eĉ se'. That makes sense, because 'eĉ se' means 'even when'. That's a synonym for 'even though', isn't it?
Not really. Se is followed by a hypothesis or something imaginary, while kvankam is followed by a fact.

Mi iros, kvankam pluvas. = it’s actually raining
Mi iros, eĉ se pluvas. = I don’t know if it’s raining

Uralo (Переглянути профіль) 7 березня 2012 р. 10:08:55

darkweasel:
Uralo:I ran the dutch translation of 'even though' (ook al) through the translator and it responded with 'eĉ se'. That makes sense, because 'eĉ se' means 'even when'. That's a synonym for 'even though', isn't it?
Not really. Se is followed by a hypothesis or something imaginary, while kvankam is followed by a fact.

Mi iros, kvankam pluvas. = it’s actually raining
Mi iros, eĉ se pluvas. = I don’t know if it’s raining
Ah, I see. Didn't know there's a diffrence between them. I use 'even though' in both occasions when I speak English.

Anyway, thanks for the tip

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