Aportes: 21
Idioma: English
sxikanto (Mostrar perfil) 13 de marzo de 2012 06:51:52
I'm working my way through Bildoj kaj demandoj, which is my only exposure to learning Esperanto so far. I'm up to lesson 35, but I'm still having some confusion about using -n.
In the lessons we learn that -n can also be used to signify an amount, to express quantity or measure.
So, we have something like this: "La pilko kostas ok stelojn." We put -n on "steloj" to signify it's being included in an amount.
We also have: "Unu horo havas sesdek minutojn." Again, we have -n on "minutoj" to signify an amount of minutes.
But then we have: "Sur la tablo estas du pomoj." But there's no -n, even though we're talking about an amount of "pomoj" and it's still an answer to a kiom / kiom da question. Why is there no -n?
Hyperboreus (Mostrar perfil) 13 de marzo de 2012 07:00:50
sxikanto (Mostrar perfil) 13 de marzo de 2012 18:49:09
All three of these sentences:
La pilko kostas ok stelojn.
Unu horo havas sesdek minutojn.
Sur la tablo estas du pomoj.
Come directly from the bildoj kaj demandoj tutorial. In that particular section of the tutorial all it says about -n is that in that instance, it can be used to denote a measure of something, which left me quite confused about why it also included some sentences that also denoted a measure of something without -n.
Your response clears things up slightly, but I'm still confused. You say that in, "Sur la tablo estas du pomoj," pomoj doesn't get an -n because it's not the object. But the tutorial says that things also get -n if they denote a count of something, and in this instance pomoj is indeed denoting a count of something? Plus wouldn't tablo be the subject with pomoj being its object?
Hyperboreus (Mostrar perfil) 13 de marzo de 2012 19:02:54
mjdh1957 (Mostrar perfil) 13 de marzo de 2012 19:03:21
Hyperboreus (Mostrar perfil) 13 de marzo de 2012 19:11:56
sxikanto (Mostrar perfil) 13 de marzo de 2012 19:22:50
Now, let's look at these two sentences:
1) La pomo estas 100 gramojn peza
2) La pezo estas 100 gramoj
So in 2, it's gramoj and not gramojn because "estas" is the verb and as mjdh says, it doesn't take an object. But in 1, estas is still the verb but it seems to be taking an object? I believe the reason you've given is because 1 uses an adjective. So, in 1, "peza" attaches to / modifies "pomo", right? Is that why you put an -n on "gramoj", so that you know "peza" and "pomo" are grouped together, instead of grouping "peza" and "gramoj" together?
Hyperboreus (Mostrar perfil) 13 de marzo de 2012 20:02:50
sudanglo (Mostrar perfil) 13 de marzo de 2012 20:51:40
Mi vidos vin mardon - on Tuesday.
Mi kuris dek kilometrojn - for ten kilometres.
La tablo estas du futojn largxa - wide by two feet
Yes, I know, that last example is not natural English, but we would say at six feet tall, he was the tallest man there.
Does this way of thinking about it help?
sxikanto (Mostrar perfil) 13 de marzo de 2012 22:21:13
Sudanglo, yes, that little trick makes it easier to think about and remember
.One more question about -n.
In the tutorial, I'm now up to a section that uses these two sentences:
Per kio oni skribas?
Oni skribas per skribilo.
Why is it "Oni skribas per skribilo" instead of "Oni skribas per skribilon"?
As a related question, why is it "Oni" instead of "Li" or "Sxi" or if dealing with a group, "Ili"? The tutorial never explained why the switch to "Oni".