lingvokapablo:

erinja:The US Census Bureau reports that most people of Indian descent preferred to refer to themselves as Indians.

On websites etc relating to Native Americans, the term "Indian" seems to be the overwhelming choice.

I think that sometimes, outsiders decide that a term is offensive, without bothering to ask those inside that group whether it's offensive.

Ahh, so like African American vs. Black, then?

erinja:I have noticed this trend a little bit with the word "Jew". Some non-Jews seem to prefer to use the term "Jewish person" because they think "Jew" is offensive. Maybe people use the word as an insult, but that's the problem of the person using it as an insult, not a problem with the word. Most Jews and Jewish groups use the word "Jew".

Interestingly enough, I slightly cringe when I hear the word "Jew" as well. Unfortantely, I have heard the word used in more derogatory contexts, so that naturally does influence me. As such, I tend to avoid that word as well, and just stick to "Jewish" rather than "Jew."

I seem to remember a teacher in highschool saying that the word Indian was a misnomer and that Native American was proper. But then, all the African American children in my school had "africanized" names and wore little necklaces in the shape of Africa. Africa was very popular back then in the 1990s. I never see Africa shaped necklaces now or hats with the shape of Africa on them, and I regularly teach English to a man from West Africa.

There are a number of active misnomers in the USA. Another is "Pennsylvania Dutch". It's is supposed to be "Pennsylvania Deutsch", but through English became simplified so that Germans became Netherlanders.

erinja:I have noticed this trend a little bit with the word "Jew". Some non-Jews seem to prefer to use the term "Jewish person" because they think "Jew" is offensive. Maybe people use the word as an insult, but that's the problem of the person using it as an insult, not a problem with the word. Most Jews and Jewish groups use the word "Jew".

I noticed this in my religious studies course. The professor said "Jew" and I was at first taken aback, but then I realized that it's only offensive when used in an offensive way.

komenstanto:There are a number of active misnomers in the USA. Another is "Pennsylvania Dutch". It's is supposed to be "Pennsylvania Deutsch", but through English became simplified so that Germans became Netherlanders.

"Dutch" is supposed to be "Deutsch" but over years of lingual evolution became simplified so that the Germans became Netherlanders.

acdibble:

komenstanto:There are a number of active misnomers in the USA. Another is "Pennsylvania Dutch". It's is supposed to be "Pennsylvania Deutsch", but through English became simplified so that Germans became Netherlanders.

"Dutch" is supposed to be "Deutsch" but over years of lingual evolution became simplified so that the Germans became Netherlanders.

Yes, I had an amusing vision of an irate German saying "ich bin nicht nederlandisch!" to a bunch of cornpone type Americans with strange drawls calling him a Dutchman. When you can laugh with Germans they are funny. When you cant, then they are not funny.

komenstanto:Yes, I had an amusing vision of an irate German saying "ich bin nicht nederlandisch!" to a bunch of cornpone type Americans with strange drawls calling him a Dutchman. When you can laugh with Germans they are funny. When you cant, then they are not funny.

Yes, my late father, who was himself a bit of a cornpone (through no fault of his own birth and upbringing) who would refer to Germans and people of German ancestry as "Dutchmen." Amazingly, he did not refer to his own wife, my mother, as a "Dutchwoman," even though she was 100% German: her father and her mother's parents were all immigrants to the USA from Germany, and my mother understood some German as a child.

Perhaps getting back somewhat to the theme of this thread, I have sometimes wondered what are the appropriate terms to use in Esperanto for different countries and ethnic groups. According to the current edition of the J. C. Wells dictionary, "India" could be either "Hindujo" -- although by no means are all the citizens of that country Hindus -- or "Barato." However, he does list a term for "American Indian" as "indiano." He gives "Ceylon" (a now deprecated term, if I understand correctly) as "Cejlono," with the now appropriate name "Sri Lanka" as "Srilanko."

What is a poor komencanto to do without giving offense.

bartlett22183:

komenstanto:Yes, I had an amusing vision of an irate German saying "ich bin nicht nederlandisch!" to a bunch of cornpone type Americans with strange drawls calling him a Dutchman. When you can laugh with Germans they are funny. When you cant, then they are not funny.

Yes, my late father, who was himself a bit of a cornpone (through no fault of his own birth and upbringing) who would refer to Germans and people of German ancestry as "Dutchmen." Amazingly, he did not refer to his own wife, my mother, as a "Dutchwoman," even though she was 100% German: her father and her mother's parents were all immigrants to the USA from Germany, and my mother understood some German as a child.

Perhaps getting back somewhat to the theme of this thread, I have sometimes wondered what are the appropriate terms to use in Esperanto for different countries and ethnic groups. According to the current edition of the J. C. Wells dictionary, "India" could be either "Hindujo" -- although by no means are all the citizens of that country Hindus -- or "Barato." However, he does list a term for "American Indian" as "indiano." He gives "Ceylon" (a now deprecated term, if I understand correctly) as "Cejlono," with the now appropriate name "Sri Lanka" as "Srilanko."

What is a poor komencanto to do without giving offense.

I never thought of that about Hindujo. Jes, the terms are mildly outdated and suggest previous European imperialism. Indiano as well, after all was perhaps a popular European term. The wild west was entertainment in Europe, with Buffalo Bill touring over there, America's first hippy. Didnt Hitler even have interests in Indians?

Here is a funny German:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2TD9l6XBeg

I just rediscovered what it was with Hitler and indians. There were some German novels with an Indian called "Winnetou". German word is "Indianer". Hitler defended these novels and read them as a boy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnetou

Forigite

Hyperboreus:

komenstanto:I just rediscovered what it was with Hitler and indians. There were some German novels with an Indian called "Winnetou". German word is "Indianer". Hitler defended these novels and read them as a boy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnetou

EVERY german boy has read Karl May and his novels about the "Wilden Westen" with Winnetou, Halbblut Apanatschi, Hadschi Halef Omar and Old Shatterhand. The author has never been to the American continent and if I recall well most novels were written in jail. Same thing is true with the Italo-Westerns (Mario Girotti aka Terence Hill and Carlo Pedersoli aka Bud Spencer amongst many).

There is even an annual Karl May festival.

(As the actor of Winnetou was French, he wasn't much of a "redskin"...)

I am always slightly appalled by the European's dream of the USA and the west. Something about it used to really rile me. It's like Albrecht Durer's rhinoceros, mostly fantasy. Even one of the Esperanto songs from Kajto vaguely annoyed me: "Melankolia Trajn-kanzono" about some supposed contact Kajto members had with a freight train on a visit to the USA that filled them with images of Woody Guthrie. No doubt in reality it was an Amtrak!