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Of greetings advanced and belated

by patrik, June 3, 2012

Messages: 9

Language: English

patrik (User's profile) June 3, 2012, 5:18:09 AM

Well, I often use the prefixal "antaŭ-" kaj "post-" to convey the meaning of "advanced" and "belated," but as I realized, I haven't encountered such usage among other Esperantists. So I now have grave doubts about it. To illustrate my usage, here's a sample conversation (unrealistic, of course):

A: Saluton! Mi ĵus sciis, ke morgaŭ estos via naskiĝtago. Antaŭan bonan naskiĝtagon!
B: Dankon, dankon. Nu, kio novas?
A: Aa, mia frato gajnis la unuan premion de la literatura konkurso! Li diris, ke li uzos la monon por iri al la IJK ĉi-jare. ridulo.gif
B: Tre bone! Bonvole invitu lin al mia festo morgaŭ, por ke mi povu lin postgratuli. Ankaŭ vi iru! Parenteze, ĉu vi ankaŭ iros al la IJK?
A: Ho, jes, certe. lango.gif
B: Des pli bone! "Antaŭsaluton," do! Nu, alhejmendas mi nun. Ĝis morgaŭ~!
A: Singardu! Ĝis morgaŭ!

[A: Hello! I just found out that tomorrow's your birthday. b]Advanced[/b] happy birthday!
B: Thank you, thank you. So, what's new?
A: Ah, my brother won first prize in the literary contest! He said he's going to use the money to go to the IJK this year.
B: Very well! Please invite him to my party tommorow, so that I could belatedly congratulate him. You also go! By the way, will you to the IJK?
A: Oh, yes, certainly.
B: All the better! "Hello!" in advanced, then. Well, I must go home now. See you tommorow!
A: Be careful! See you tommorow!]

What do you think? Is this usage wrong?

Mustelvulpo (User's profile) June 3, 2012, 5:51:06 AM

I don't see anything incorrect about the sentences you give as examples, but is such a construction really necessary in those circumstances? If someone tells me that his or her birthday is tomorrow, I would just say "Happy birthday," not "Happy birthday in advance." If someone I hadn't seen for a while told me of some major achievement or milestone that happened the year before, I'd just say "Congratulations" not "Belated congratulations." I suppose that if I completely forgot about an intimate's birthday until long afterward, I might say "Happy belated birthday" but that would be seldom. That's probably why you haven't often encountered such sentences in Esperanto, but in circumstances in which you feel the need to emphasize that your best wishes are either well in advance or lagging behind, constructions with "antaŭ" and "post" are a good way to do it.

erinja (User's profile) June 3, 2012, 2:47:04 PM

"alhejmendas" is a bit strange. Also, "singardu" usually means "Watch out!" It isn't really a polite way to ask someone to take care of themselves, it has a meaning of warning, not good wishes.

I wouldn't say "antaŭsaluton", but if it's something like "dankon", which is normally something you'd only say after someone has done something, you definitely do hear "antaŭdankon" (thanks in advance).

Perhaps you'd say it if someone was going to do something nice for you, but you knew you weren't going to be able to thank them promptly afterwards.

In terms of wishing someone a happy birthday early, normally you wouldn't use "antaŭ". You'd simply say "feliĉan naskiĝtagon". Or if you wanted someone else to wish someone a happy birthday for you, you might say "deziru feliĉan naskiĝtagon mianome" (pass along birthday wishes in my name)

If it's late congratulations, normally I wouldn't say "post", I'd just say "gratulojn".

RiotNrrd (User's profile) June 3, 2012, 5:51:24 PM

"Frua" and "malfrua" also seem like they might be put to good use in this context.

patrik (User's profile) June 5, 2012, 12:56:29 AM

erinja:"alhejmendas" is a bit strange. Also, "singardu" usually means "Watch out!" It isn't really a polite way to ask someone to take care of themselves, it has a meaning of warning, not good wishes.
I do often say "alhejmi". A particular quirk of mine. One nice thing about Esperanto is that because of the Fundamento, one can have his Esperanto idiolect and still be understood by other Esperantists. :d And thanks about the tip about "singardu". What should be used instead of it?

erinja:I wouldn't say "antaŭsaluton", but if it's something like "dankon", which is normally something you'd only say after someone has done something, you definitely do hear "antaŭdankon" (thanks in advance).

Perhaps you'd say it if someone was going to do something nice for you, but you knew you weren't going to be able to thank them promptly afterwards.
I use "antaŭdankon". I say it when a friend tells me that he/she'll send me a letter. And when I receive the letter, it's time for me to say "dankon." :d

erinja:In terms of wishing someone a happy birthday early, normally you wouldn't use "antaŭ". You'd simply say "feliĉan naskiĝtagon". Or if you wanted someone else to wish someone a happy birthday for you, you might say "deziru feliĉan naskiĝtagon mianome" (pass along birthday wishes in my name)

If it's late congratulations, normally I wouldn't say "post", I'd just say "gratulojn".
Well, I'm that precise in regards to that. We Filipinos do say advanced and belated greetings, and I tend to carry it over to Esperanto. Yes, it's not the thing one could normally say, but what I care about is that whether that usage is correct or not according to the Fundamento. okulumo.gif Nevertheless, I agree with you on "gratulojn." "Postgratuli" is not necessary. Thanks~! ridulo.gif

@RiotNrrd: Yeah, I agree. ridulo.gif

TatuLe (User's profile) June 5, 2012, 1:23:51 AM

In "Antaŭan bonan naskiĝtagon!", I think it is very unclear that "antaŭan" is supposed to mean "advanced" (When I first read it, I understood it as "Have a good earlier birthday!", although that doesn't even make much sence). If you want the happy birthday wishing to be advanced, a clearer way to express it would be something like "Mi antaŭdeziras al vi bonan/feliĉan naskiĝtagon".

darkweasel (User's profile) June 5, 2012, 9:12:49 AM

TatuLe:"Have a good earlier birthday!", although that doesn't even make much sence
Maybe it’s about somebody born on February 29 who celebrates their birthday on February 28. ridulo.gif

sudanglo (User's profile) June 5, 2012, 10:53:45 AM

Even if "alhejmi" were OK, "alhejmendas" would have the passive meaning
For me it would mean I should be getting home.

The interpretation of compounds often has a common sense basis and endas ke mi estu alhejmata(-ita) doesn't seem to have any real-world application.

hebda999 (User's profile) June 5, 2012, 1:54:51 PM

This all is OK, but I think that Esperanto should be as simple as possible. Otherwise we get a language nobody understands.

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