讯息： 13
语言: English
Hyperboreus (显示个人资料) 2012年6月14日下午6:07:16
xdzt (显示个人资料) 2012年6月14日下午7:55:57
Aetaris:Maybe I'm just over looking it, but I haven't been able to find the difference between these.I'm only a beginner, but my book said there isn't one. I think it's like the difference between 'malnova frukto' and 'frukto malnova' -- ie, there isn't any besides perceived cadence, emphasis, etc.
Can anyone explain this to me?
Tempodivalse (显示个人资料) 2012年6月17日上午3:39:53
Aetaris:Maybe I'm just over looking it, but I haven't been able to find the difference between these.There is no real difference. "Ĉi tiu knabo estas bona" and "Tiu ĉi knabo estas bona" mean the same thing. Based on my observations, the former appears to be more commonly used nowadays, whereas the latter was far more popular in the Zamenhof era.
Can anyone explain this to me?
However, depending on the surrounding words, I tend to prefer one over the other for the sake of euphony (for instance, "ĉar ĉi tiuj" is a bit of a mouthful, while "ĉar tiuj ĉi" rolls more nicely off the tongue).
darkweasel (显示个人资料) 2012年6月17日上午9:41:00
*Estas tie ĉi tiu knabino doesn’t work, it could mean "that girl is here" or "this girl is there" as it is unclear what ĉi refers to. To disambiguate, use estas ĉi tie tiu knabino or estas tie tiu ĉi knabino. Or just put the verb into the second position ...
Tempodivalse (显示个人资料) 2012年6月17日下午7:32:51
sudanglo:Searching post 1960 works in the Tekstaro corpus throws up many more hits for ĉi tie (almost 700) than tie ĉi (51).On a somewhat-related note, does anyone think there's an advantage to using a dash to connect "ĉi" to the correlative (tiu-ĉi, ĉi-tial, etc)? Some sources I've seen say that this is superfluous and should be avoided, but I see it occasionally in old texts. It seems mildly useful in ambiguous cases like the one Darkweasel presented.
A seach on later works also throws up more hits for ĉi tiel (27) - only 4 hits for tiel ĉi.
darkweasel (显示个人资料) 2012年6月17日下午8:04:19
Tempodivalse:Actually it is an error (albeit frequent) and nothing more.
On a somewhat-related note, does anyone think there's an advantage to using a dash to connect "ĉi" to the correlative (tiu-ĉi, ĉi-tial, etc)? Some sources I've seen say that this is superfluous and should be avoided, but I see it occasionally in old texts.
erinja (显示个人资料) 2012年6月18日上午12:47:30
Linking ĉi with a hyphen is wrong in every other circumstance (so we say "ĉi somero", no hyphen, but "ĉi-somere", hyphen with adverb)
There's a grammatical reason for this, it isn't arbitrary, but it's probably not necessary to go through that detail here right now.