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A question of politeness

从 Leke, 2012年7月7日

讯息： 19

语言: English

LingvaLupo (显示个人资料) 2012年7月12日上午3:56:02

If you don't wish to use "get," how about "Please find a doctor," and "Please bring me a drink"? I'm new to Esperanto, so I'll leave that part to someone who could answer it more accurately than I.

sudanglo (显示个人资料) 2012年7月12日上午9:59:55

Native speakers of English have no qualms about using 'get'. A very useful word precisely because of the generality of its meaning - roughly the change or transition appropriate to the context.

erinja (显示个人资料) 2012年7月12日上午10:30:11

Leke:I got irpreni from the dictionary here on lernu. I remember in school, we were told not to use the word 'get' and to try and find a different verb to express ourselves. I thought fetch was best and irpreni was the verb that was returned. Thanks for the suggestions though ridulo.gif
"Get" perhaps doesn't sound like high class language but everyone I know uses it all the time. No one in the US ever uses "fetch" (except perhaps to refer to saying "go fetch" to a dog to get a stick, but even then, no one would ever say "Come on Spot, fetch it!). It sounds quaint and old-fashioned to our ears.

The lernu dictionary is compiled from a number of sources. I'm tempted to pull our "irpreni" precisely because I don't really recommend using it and I never hear it used by Esperanto speakers, experienced or otherwise. But I'd need to go a tekstaro search before going so far as to remove it.

Wilhelm (显示个人资料) 2012年7月12日下午8:08:08

I've come across "irprenu" used to express "fetch", as in playing fetch with ones dog.

Wilhelm (显示个人资料) 2012年7月12日下午8:14:15

sudanglo:Native speakers of English have no qualms about using 'get'.
Sorry to be off topic, but "qualms" is one of my favourite words.
ridulo.gif

Leke (显示个人资料) 2012年7月13日下午1:15:04

Yes, I see now why fetch might be a bad choice of verb in this example, but I think using your own language's ambiguousness in a foreign language could be asking for trouble so to speak. I guess I need to read up on how to obtain things in Esperanto. I guess it's more a case of what you are trying get, although it would be handy to have a catch all like in English. Reading the earlier posts, it looks like the common verb is preni(?).

Leke (显示个人资料) 2012年7月13日下午1:17:29

Wilhelm:Sorry to be off topic, but "qualms" is one of my favourite words.
ridulo.gif
I have no qualms with that lango.gif

Epovikipedio (显示个人资料) 2012年7月13日下午1:21:26

Leke:What are the levels of politeness in Esperanto? Like, if I say...

Get me a drink : Irprenu al mi trinkaĵo.
...and...
Could you get me a drink? : Ĉu vi irprenus trinkaĵo al mi?

Is the first considered rude? Is the second considered unnecessary? Are they even right lango.gif
The second is polite, the first looks like an order.

And do not forget the "please" (mi petas) !

Chainy (显示个人资料) 2012年7月18日下午1:41:08

erinja:The lernu dictionary is compiled from a number of sources. I'm tempted to pull our "irpreni" precisely because I don't really recommend using it and I never hear it used by Esperanto speakers, experienced or otherwise. But I'd need to go a tekstaro search before going so far as to remove it.
Yes, 'irpreni' sounds a bit odd to me, and I don't remember coming across it before, either. If you search for 'irpren' in the Tekstaro, then it doesn't come up with any matches.

According to Wells:
fetch = venigi; alporti; alkonduki.
None of the following dictionaries contains 'irpreni': NPIV (vortaro.net), ReVo, Kondratjev, Hron.

Sometimes I take a look at the online dictionary by Thomas Schütz - I've no idea who this person is, but his German-Esperanto dictionary covers a decent number of words and it generally seems quite good. However, his translation of 'holen' includes the very iffy 'holi' as one option. His full translation is:
holen = alkonduki, holi, irpreni, iri pro preni, (bringen, hertragen) alporti, (jemanden holen) venigi iun, (Atem holen) spiri, ekspiri, (Rat holen) demandi konsilon, (sich eine Krankheit holen) kapti malsanon, (bei mir ist nichts zu holen) de mi oni povas nenion forporti
I noticed that the dictionary aggregator ViVo includes an entry from the dictionary 'Majstro':
irpreni = gaan halen
Some people clearly feel the need for a direct translation of 'halen' and 'holen'. However, I think that in Russian people would use something more like the straightforward 'alporti' (= принести).

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