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Why is "studisto" not an acceptable translation of student?

از Betka, 22 سپتامبر 2007

پست‌ها: 20

زبان: English

Betka (نمایش مشخصات) 22 سپتامبر 2007،‏ 20:34:40

Several days ago I learned, that adding "isto" to a verb makes it into a profession, hobby etc.

"Fotas"+"isto"="Fotisto"
"Instruas"+"isto"="Instruisto"
"Esperanto"+"isto"="Esperantisto"

Therefore, it would seem logical that the below is true

"Studas"+"isto"=Studisto

But it isn't. The correct word for student is "studento". I did some on-line research, and found that "studisto" is not a word (is not in a dictionary, neither has it been used in writing). I also found a thread similar to mine , dated about two years back. However, no conclusion had been reached.

Why is "studisto" not an acceptable translation of student?

mnlg (نمایش مشخصات) 22 سپتامبر 2007،‏ 20:48:40

-ist- marks a profession or fellowship (budhisto, komunisto, ...). It is debatable whether being a student can be considered a profession. I would use "studisto" for someone, within a company, charged with the task of studying stuff. Which would be a few steps from becoming "spertulo" or "fakulo", supposedly.

You can also use "studanto" if you wish; as a matter of fact I never use "studento".

estati (نمایش مشخصات) 22 سپتامبر 2007،‏ 21:24:44

Hi folks,

we have discussed this issue recently in the German forum. It is also addressed in the beginners' course "Me estas komencanto". The correct word for a student is indeed studento. Studanto is probably not quite correct, see Kellermann, Eo Grammar, which I quote here:
"205. Nouns may be formed from participles, by substituting the noun ending "-o" for the adjectival ending "-a". Such participial nouns indicate persons temporarily or non-professionally performing or undergoing that which is expressed by the root:

helpanto, one who is helping, an assistant.
elpensinto, one who has thought out something, an inventor.
legonto, one who is about to read. vidato, one (being) seen.
sendito, one (having been) sent, an envoy.
la jugxoto, the one about to be judged, the accused.

[Footnote: Participial nouns must not be confused with nouns formed by the suffix "-ist-" (172) expressing professional or permanent occupation: "rajdanto", a rider, "rajdisto", jockey, horseman, "jugxanto", a judge (of something), "jugxisto", judge (professional), "laboranto", a person working, "laboristo", laborer.]"

According to my personal interpretation, a studanto would be someone who studies just now and then, but not permanently for a longer period of time.
Best regards
estati

mnlg (نمایش مشخصات) 22 سپتامبر 2007،‏ 21:40:10

estati:According to my personal interpretation, a studanto would be someone who studies just now and then, but not permanently for a longer period of time.
According to mine, a studanto is someone whose action of studying is not complete, however long it might take. As long as I can say "Mi studas ĉe universitato ABC", I guess I can feel entitled to say "Mi estas studanto ĉe universitato ABC".

Your quote is indeed interesting. Is studying a profession? I would say it is not, therefore "such participial noun" indicates indeed a person "non-professionally performing or undergoing that which is expressed by the root". I am satisfied. ridulo.gif

Stefano B (نمایش مشخصات) 22 سپتامبر 2007،‏ 22:13:58

Like mnlg, I would always say "studanto", not "studento". I'm not quite sure where "studento" comes from, as "-ent" isn't an Esperanto suffix that I'm aware of.

mnlg (نمایش مشخصات) 23 سپتامبر 2007،‏ 0:32:40

Stefano B:I'm not quite sure where "studento" comes from, as "-ent" isn't an Esperanto suffix that I'm aware of.
Although according to my dictionary there is a word "ento", meaning "entity", "student-" is an independent word root.

According to PIV @1987, "student-" is a fundamenta radiko ("stud/i" even allows the definition of "esti studento"). This should decide once and for all that it is perfectly OK to use it. Personally though I am satisfied with "studanto" and I will just keep using that one.

Stefano B (نمایش مشخصات) 23 سپتامبر 2007،‏ 3:01:10

Le Hibou:Kiam mi estis studento, mi ne estis studanto.

(that's why I didn't get a degree!)
lol, that doesn't make much sense, though. It's like you're saying "When I was a student, I wasn't a student."

Do you mean "Kiam mi estis studento, mi ne estis studema."?

mnlg (نمایش مشخصات) 23 سپتامبر 2007،‏ 8:17:07

Stefano B:Do you mean "Kiam mi estis studento, mi ne estis studema."?
Or "Kiam mi estis studento, mi ne estis studanta". rido.gif

erinja (نمایش مشخصات) 23 سپتامبر 2007،‏ 14:42:51

I would not use "studisto" unless you do it for a living. Most people who are studying into their 30's are not planning to study for the rest of their lives. Being a student is not their career, in most cases. Yes, they are studying into their 30's, but they don't plan to do it forever. Presumably they are earning little money and can't do this forever - they will need to get a "real job" sooner or later.

To me a "studisto" is someone who studies for a living, and plans to do this for the long haul. They get paid for their studying, but the studying isn't with the intent of getting a degree. This makes me think of a fact-finder or researcher for a company, who studies things that may be of interest to the company, and reports back with their findings. A "studento" to me is a student, in the sense of "a student of law" or "a student of engineering" (usually university level or higher). I use the word "lernanto" for students below the university level. A "studanto" for me is someone who is currently studying. Therefore, if I enter a library and see many people studying books, I might say "Estas multaj studantoj ĉi tie" (There are many people-who-are-studying here). Not all of these people might be students - some might be community members who have come to study a book. They are not students; they are simply studying something right now. They are 'studantoj' but not 'studentoj.' There may be students who are walking through the room but not currently studying anything. To me, they are 'studentoj' but not 'studantoj'. This is my personal practice. I understand that some people use "studanto" to refer both to students generally, and to people who are currently studying something (but are not students). That's fine, but in any case it is not correct (in my opinion) to say that someone is a "studento" just because they happen to be studying a book at the moment.

Miland (نمایش مشخصات) 2 اکتبر 2007،‏ 20:42:36

To me studisto sounds like a sarcastic description. I was reminded of the classic poem by Julio Baghy Estas mi esperantisto (pp 137-139 of Esperanta Antologio) . Perhaps people would like to try their hand at making up a stanza that might be suitable for this sort of poem with the word 'studisto'? For example

Neparolante mi estas studisto
estas mi esperantisto

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