Chainy:If anyone saw me reading this one on the bus, they'd think I must be a raving lunatic. 'Painful' is a good word for the picture on the front cover! - Mi estas homo

Oh! The lulz! They are unstoppable!

Here's one of the nicer covers I've seen:

http://esperanto-usa.org/retbutiko/index.php?main_...

But this seems to be more prevalent:

http://esperanto-usa.org/retbutiko/index.php?main_...

http://esperanto-usa.org/retbutiko/index.php?main_...

http://esperanto-usa.org/retbutiko/index.php?main_...

http://esperanto-usa.org/retbutiko/index.php?main_...

I mean, c'mon. At least TRY.

Chainy:If anyone saw me reading this one on the bus, they'd think I must be a raving lunatic. 'Painful' is a good word for the picture on the front cover! - Mi estas homo

Zamenhof looks as dashing as ever.

Forigite

I'm not sure what you mean by "where the translator tries to revive 'ci' to render the tutoyage of the original." Can you explain that?

In French (the original language of the Maigret series) they have two forms for 'you' - vous and tu - and a very involved sense of manners as to when the more intimate pronoun is appropriate.

The translator of Amiko el Junaĝo tries to revive the archaic Esperanto pronoun 'ci' (thou) to convey certain distinctions in the interaction of Maigret with his old friend. But Esperanto has made do with a single pronoun for 'you' (as has English) for many years and there is no associated sense of intimacy or informality with 'ci'.

He should have stuck to 'vi' and used other devices to show a change in formality and social tension. It sounds as silly as if you tried to translate Maigret's speech into English using 'thou', 'thee', 'thine'.

The problem is that books in Esperanto are not generally professionally edited before seeing the light of day, as would happen in the national language publishing houses. So one is at the mercy of the whims of the translator/author (who won't have been paid much, if anything, for his efforts and therefore is not in a normal commercial relation with the publishers).

It makes an interesting comparison, matching up line by line the French version of Murder on the Orient Express with the Esperanto translation of the 1930's.

Whilst the Esperanto of the translation is generally OK, and the book readable, the level of the language is completely different. The French translation uses a rich adult sophisticated language, whilst the Esperanto version is more at the level of an intelligent schoolboy.

This is an example of what I was getting out in suggesting that earlier translations in Esperanto would profit from new revised editions.

However, later doesn't always mean better as a comparison of the Esperanto translation from 1910 of Alice in Wonderland with the version for the 1990's shows.

Because of the general amateurism in the Esperanto movement and the lack of normal commercial disciplines, it is a very hit and miss affair as to whether the results are satisfactory. I read somewhere that only about 25% of all published translations in Esperanto can be considered professional.

patrik:My picks:
Ayn Rand - The Fountainhead and Anthem
Works of Yukio Mishima
Heike Monogatari (The Tale of Heike)
Shusaku Endo - Chinmoku (Silence)
Friedrich Hayek - The Road to Serfdom
Rene Girard - I Saw Satan Fall like Lightning
Max Scheler - Ressentiment
Antoine de Saint-Exupery - Wind, Sand and Stars
Mozi - Mozi

I had forgotten that I'd seen Anthem in Esperanto online. Jen ligilo.

Vestitor:Can't say I agree with the idea that it's not worth creating new written work just because more is available in English (or whatever language).

I don't think that anyone expressed the opinion that it isn't worth creating any new written work.

However, there's a reason why you see some types of works more than another.

I would rather see a new novel in Esperanto, or a book of poetry (though poetry doesn't interest me personally), or a book written about a person's experiences, than to see an Esperanto version of "Windows for Dummies". Therefore I wouldn't be inclined to complain that Esperanto doesn't have its own version of "Windows for Dummies", though such a book surely exists in many other languages.

Having said that, if someone wants to write "Windows for Dummies" in Esperanto, they should go ahead and do it. But they should be aware that Esperanto publishing is a labour of love, not a venture that will earn you a living.

SPX:Is anyone saddened by the cover art on most Esperanto books?.

It's usually horrible, but it's well in keeping with the amateurish nature of the Esperanto publishing industry.

I often see varying quality even from the same publisher, and I sometimes wonder if the author did their own art, and some people just did a better job than others.

It's so bad that I'm pleasantly surprised when I see an Esperanto book whose cover looks like a "normal" professional book.

sudanglo:In French (the original language of the Maigret series) they have two forms for 'you' - vous and tu - and a very involved sense of manners as to when the more intimate pronoun is appropriate.

The translator of Amiko el Junaĝo tries to revive the archaic Esperanto pronoun 'ci' (thou) to convey certain distinctions in the interaction of Maigret with his old friend. But Esperanto has made do with a single pronoun for 'you' (as has English) for many years and there is no associated sense of intimacy or informality with 'ci'.

He should have stuck to 'vi' and used other devices to show a change in formality and social tension. It sounds as silly as if you tried to translate Maigret's speech into English using 'thou', 'thee', 'thine'.

Wow, that's very interesting.

I've always thought of Esperanto as something that has essentially remained unchanged except for the addition of new words, and that it is something of a principle behind the language that what Zamenhof set forth is set in stone since a) he pretty much closed to door to any revisions when he was alive, and b) allowing the language to change will eventually lead to the same kind of confusion that we see in national languages.

Hearing that there was at one time an additional pronoun is pretty surprising.

sudanglo:The problem is that books in Esperanto are not generally professionally edited before seeing the light of day, as would happen in the national language publishing houses. So one is at the mercy of the whims of the translator/author (who won't have been paid much, if anything, for his efforts and therefore is not in a normal commercial relation with the publishers).

Is this the case only for self-published works or also for those coming out of professional Esperanto publishing houses?

sudanglo:It makes an interesting comparison, matching up line by line the French version of Murder on the Orient Express with the Esperanto translation of the 1930's.

Whilst the Esperanto of the translation is generally OK, and the book readable, the level of the language is completely different. The French translation uses a rich adult sophisticated language, whilst the Esperanto version is more at the level of an intelligent schoolboy.

This is an example of what I was getting out in suggesting that earlier translations in Esperanto would profit from new revised editions.

So of course I know you can't get a definitive answer on this, but with regular study, how long do you think it would take someone to get to the level of being able to do a good, competent, worthwhile Esperanto translation?

Do a lot of translators just jump in before they're ready?

sudanglo:However, later doesn't always mean better as a comparison of the Esperanto translation from 1910 of Alice in Wonderland with the version for the 1990's shows.

Hmm, if they couldn't improve upon the original, I wonder why they took the time to re-translate the book.

sudanglo:Because of the general amateurism in the Esperanto movement and the lack of normal commercial disciplines, it is a very hit and miss affair as to whether the results are satisfactory. I read somewhere that only about 25% of all published translations in Esperanto can be considered professional.

That's very interesting. I would have just expected anything to come out of a professional publishing house to have been properly edited and revised by a competent and fluent (or at least near-fluent) Esperantist.