erinja:
It's so bad that I'm pleasantly surprised when I see an Esperanto book whose cover looks like a "normal" professional book.

Ha ha, yes exactly. This is how I'm feeling so far.

To be honest, it's obviously not going to happen today or tomorrow, but all this pushes me to make it a long-term goal to one day get a truly professional, high-quality Esperanto publishing operation going. I just see so much room for improvement.

SPX:
I've always thought of Esperanto as something that has essentially remained unchanged except for the addition of new words [...]

While the core of Esperanto necessarily remains unchanged, the language does seem to evolve in some respects. Here's an interesting article on the matter.

EldanarLambetur:
While the core of Esperanto necessarily remains unchanged, the language does seem to evolve in some respects. Here's an interesting article on the matter.

I will check that out. Thank you!

So if I wanted to read the BEST Esperanto, that is, the most technically perfect and the most artful, what authors should I focus on?

And how many of these authors are still writing today?

I have recently published new editions of Donald Broadribb's splendid translation of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking-Glass and What Alice Found There by Lewis Carroll. These are corrected editions, both edited by Patrick Wynne and corrected by the author.

Vidu evertype.com/books/alice-eo-broadribb.html kaj evertype.com/books/looking-glass-eo-broadribb.html

SPX:I've always thought of Esperanto as something that has essentially remained unchanged except for the addition of new words, and that it is something of a principle behind the language that what Zamenhof set forth is set in stone since a) he pretty much closed to door to any revisions when he was alive, and b) allowing the language to change will eventually lead to the same kind of confusion that we see in national languages.

There have been no changes to the grammar since Zamenhof's time.

However, Zamenhof left a lot of leeway for alternative usages, and the movements between which usages are customary are what we're talking about here.

For example, "estas [root]ita" can (often, with some caveats) be expressed as "[root]iĝas". In the early days the former was standard usage. Today, the latter is becoming more common.[1]

Another example. "Estas [adjective]" can (often, with some caveats) be converted to "[adjective root]as". In the early days the former was standard usage. Today, the latter is becoming more common.[1]

As mentioned, "ci" has fallen out of favor. I don't think it was ever actually IN favor in a widespread sense, but really, anyone who uses it now is simply adopting an annoying affectation.[2] Early on, it wasn't thus.

And so on.

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[1] Those whose immediate reaction to that statement is "But, that's not the most common usage" are not paying attention to what I wrote.

[2] If your reaction to THAT statement is "But *I* use 'ci', and it is NOT an annoying affectation", then you are pretty much deluding yourself.

jchthys:

patrik:My picks:
Ayn Rand - The Fountainhead and Anthem
Works of Yukio Mishima
Heike Monogatari (The Tale of Heike)
Shusaku Endo - Chinmoku (Silence)
Friedrich Hayek - The Road to Serfdom
Rene Girard - I Saw Satan Fall like Lightning
Max Scheler - Ressentiment
Antoine de Saint-Exupery - Wind, Sand and Stars
Mozi - Mozi

I had forgotten that I'd seen Anthem in Esperanto online. Jen ligilo.

But it's atrocious! It suffers from bad grammar and mistranslations! "Nedireblaj Fojoj" for "Unspeakable Times"?! >_<

In the case of "ci", it has existed from the very beginning, but also from the beginning, Zamenhof recommended not to use it. I wouldn't say that it has fallen out of use - it was never really in use, and anyone who uses it sounds horribly affected.

SPX:That's very interesting. I would have just expected anything to come out of a professional publishing house to have been properly edited and revised by a competent and fluent (or at least near-fluent) Esperantist.

Remember that most Esperanto works are the equivalent of self-published, so most things don't really come from a true publishing house.

Most things that are published are edited enough that they aren't full of glaring grammatical errors etc. But that doesn't mean that the style is good, or that the text is generally well-written.

With the small press runs, Esperanto works are not very cheap, and adding true professionalism to it, with professional editors, high quality cover graphics, etc, would push the cost even higher.

SPX:Hmm, if they couldn't improve upon the original, I wonder why they took the time to re-translate the book.

No one likes to think that their work is crap. Why do film producers re-make movies, then the re-make isn't as good as the original? No one intentionally makes a translation of poorer quality, but sometimes one person just isn't as talented as another, and doesn't necessarily realize it.

SPX:So of course I know you can't get a definitive answer on this, but with regular study, how long do you think it would take someone to get to the level of being able to do a good, competent, worthwhile Esperanto translation?

That's really impossible to answer. It depends on your natural talent for languages, it depends on your natural talent for use of language (translation style etc), it depends on how much reading you've done in Esperanto, and how good you are at noticing turns of phrase. I have a feeling that it has a lot to do with how good a writer you are in your native language. A bad writer in their native language isn't likely to magically become a brilliant writer in a second language, in my opinion.

I think that practice makes perfect so if your goal is to do translation, you should start it as early as possible. Read a lot to develop an ear for style, and write a lot, translate a lot of small things to get practice, and ask for feedback from others.

RiotNrrd:[1] Those whose immediate reaction to that statement is "But, that's not the most common usage" are not paying attention to what I wrote.

The 'caveats', as you put it, are rather significant ones, though, so it might be better not to wade in with such iffy examples for people just starting off in Esperanto!

erinja:In the case of "ci", it has existed from the very beginning, but also from the beginning, Zamenhof recommended not to use it.

I have to wonder, then, why he even bothered to incorporate it into the language.

erinja:Remember that most Esperanto works are the equivalent of self-published, so most things don't really come from a true publishing house.

Most things that are published are edited enough that they aren't full of glaring grammatical errors etc. But that doesn't mean that the style is good, or that the text is generally well-written.

I guess I would think that, at least in the case of publishers like Mondial, if they don't have the time or resources to do an extensive editing job, then they would at least separate the wheat from the chaff by choosing to simply not publish those works that are not up to par. So they would maintain a high-quality catalog by keeping a close eye on who gets through the gates, as it were.

erinja:No one likes to think that their work is crap. Why do film producers re-make movies, then the re-make isn't as good as the original? No one intentionally makes a translation of poorer quality, but sometimes one person just isn't as talented as another, and doesn't necessarily realize it.

That's a good point. The movie analogy is a good one.

erinja:
I think that practice makes perfect so if your goal is to do translation, you should start it as early as possible.

I've been working on this:

http://www.lonweb.org/daisy/templates/0-ds-The_Sea...

It's slow going, since I'm a beginner. But it's definitely a helpful exercise for learning the language. Once I get done with it I was hoping some of you guys could help point out what's good and where I've gone wrong.

My goal, once it's in proper form, is to submit it to their website so that one day it can help someone else. (They are woefully deficient on Esperanto material.)

erinja:Read a lot to develop an ear for style. . .

What authors would you suggest for this purpose?