글: 39
언어: English
Evildela (프로필 보기) 2012년 9월 6일 오전 7:36:27
I already have a computer
Sed mi jam havas komputilon
But lets emphsise the fact that we already have one;
Sed mi jam ja havas komputilon
This usage is supported by the tekstaro. Changing the tone of a sentence in Esperanto (although something we westerns naturally do) should not be used.
sudanglo (프로필 보기) 2012년 9월 6일 오전 11:00:34
But lets emphasise the fact that we already have one;Actually, the Tekstaro has no hits for jam ja but there are some for ja jam.
Sed mi jam ja havas komputilon
The John Well's lecture, which I had a quick look at last night, seems to suggest that there are some universals of intonation - so they can be legitimately part of Esperanto.
If I don't misremember in the komputila ekzemplo he argues that English native speakers would prefer (i) and do something with the havas. Russians would prefer (ii) but I can't remember now which word the Russians were supposed to pick out for intonational treatment.
Actually, I don't see why Esperanto has to limit itself in intonation just to universals. Why can't it (perhaps it already has) evolve its own system.
I'll come back in a mo' and post the link to his lecture.
Edit: here's the link
John seems to assert that native English speakers make a much greater use of intonation to convey meaning that is usual in other languages - which would certainly explain my perception of foreign learners of English often sounding wrong (seeming to convey an attitude or meaning which circumstances suggest was not what they intended). If true, we ought to make more use of this in our propaganda.
sudanglo (프로필 보기) 2012년 9월 7일 오전 9:29:04
- Kion vi pensas pri ŝi?
- Eble mi metos ŝin en unu el miaj teatraĵoj ..
- Ĉar ŝi estas malmulte ordinara persono?
- Estas neniu ordinara ĉi tie ... Ĉiuj estas frenezaj...
- Ankaŭ via ĉefo?
Did you have a problem following this dialogue? I suspect not. Yet there are two questions (lines 3. and 5.) not marked by question words, which could have been comments. Merely the use of a question mark shows that they are questions.
Now consider that you were having this conversation. How would you mark the questions in your speech?
Urho (프로필 보기) 2012년 9월 7일 오전 10:52:08
sudanglo:Now consider that you were having this conversation. How would you mark the questions in your speech?bv. kompari kun mia mesaĝo Vij eble parolas…[/url]
sudanglo (프로필 보기) 2012년 9월 8일 오전 10:37:37
Of course the idea that you can question in speech by fraz-melodio a form that is grammatically a statement is not alien to speakers of English and French. Is this a universal? If so, is the frazmelodio the same in all languages?
Another thing. John seems to suggest that rendering a question like Did you take my keys? (emphasizing you) by Ĉu estis vi, kiu prenis miajn ŝlosilojn may not be universally recognized (the emphasis part). Or perhaps I misunderstand him.
I find this construction quite normal and it exists in French, I believe, as well as English.
Hyperboreus (프로필 보기) 2012년 9월 8일 오후 5:46:07
sudanglo (프로필 보기) 2012년 9월 8일 오후 9:27:17
I can't recall in ordinary conversation in Esperanto ever being misunderstood or misunderstanding through the frazmelodio. But now I am floundering to think whether I would actually automatically stick in a ĉu in fluent speech.
Do you imagine HB that to turn a statement into a question there might be a frazmelodio common to most European languages. I suppose my informal conversations in Esperanto have all been with native speakers of European languages.