Tin nhắn: 14
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Simon Pure (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 10:41:12 Ngày 26 tháng 8 năm 2012
So if not balancilo, what is the Esperanto word for swing?
creedelambard (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 11:06:08 Ngày 26 tháng 8 năm 2012
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I guess you could call it a "knabopendolo" but "balancilo" saves you a syllable.
Chainy (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 11:24:21 Ngày 26 tháng 8 năm 2012
swing = pendolo (Pendolsimila ludilo, kiu konsistas el sidtabulo, pendanta de du longaj ŝnuroj k laŭvole svingebla (balancilo))
see-saw = baskulo (Longa tabulo metita sur ŝtipo, tiel ke personoj po unu ĉe ĉiu ekstremaĵo povas alterne leviĝi k malleviĝi)
And vortaro.net suggests that 'balancilo' can refer to either a swing or a see-saw.
Wikipedia supports the above, apart from the fact that it uses 'pendolilo' rather than 'pendolo'.
Wells suggests:
swing = balancilo
see-saw = baskulo
So, it seems that people might often be tempted to use 'balancilo' to refer to a swing, although it can in fact have a broader meaning, which also includes 'see-saw'. A more precise way of naming a see-saw seems to be 'pendolo/pendolilo'.
Chainy (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 12:00:53 Ngày 26 tháng 8 năm 2012
Both 'balanci' and 'svingi' are transitive. "Balanci" always involves the idea of 'up and down':
Jese balanci la kapon = kapjesi (moving head up and down)
But, in many cases, it seems that either word can be used, and there's a lot of crossover. In vortaro.net, many of the examples of 'svingi' could be said with 'balanci'.
sidi sur tablo, svingante la krurojn = sidi sur tablo, balancante la krurojn.
- Or is there a difference between the above? The definitions of 'svingi' usually mention the speed or strength of the movement, but then the examples given don't automatically require such speed and strength. Slightly confusing.
Chainy (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 12:23:45 Ngày 26 tháng 8 năm 2012
swing = svingiĝi, pendoli, svingi, balanciBut, using Wells and a few additions, I've now changed it to this:
swing = balanc-i tr, -iĝi, -iĝo, -ilo; (brandish, move back and forth) sving-i tr, -iĝi; (in playground) pendolo, pendolilo; turn-i tr, -iĝi; swing bridge: turnoponto; swing door: svingopordoWhat do you think? It's rather difficult indicating the difference between 'balanci' and 'svingi'. Maybe I should add 'up and down' in relation to 'balanci'? Wells includes 'turni', so perhaps in some contexts that makes sense.
Chainy (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 12:58:05 Ngày 26 tháng 8 năm 2012
Simon Pure:Here in the lernu vortaro balancilo is see-sawI think this should be changed to:
balancilo = swing, see-saw
- this is supported by vortaro.net, Kondratjev, ReVo
Simon Pure (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 10:34:36 Ngày 27 tháng 8 năm 2012
Chainy:Originally, the Lernu dictionary looked like this:Svingilo is not on that list. Which vortaro.net lists as:swing = svingiĝi, pendoli, svingi, balanciBut, using Wells and a few additions, I've now changed it to this:swing = balanc-i tr, -iĝi, -iĝo, -ilo; (brandish, move back and forth) sving-i tr, -iĝi; (in playground) pendolo, pendolilo; turn-i tr, -iĝi; swing bridge: turnoponto; swing door: svingopordoWhat do you think? It's rather difficult indicating the difference between 'balanci' and 'svingi'. Maybe I should add 'up and down' in relation to 'balanci'? Wells includes 'turni', so perhaps in some contexts that makes sense.
svingilo. Ĉio, kio servas por svingi k nome:
1 Frapilo pendanta en sonorilo.
2 Pendolo de horloĝo.
3 Batilo de draŝilo.
4 Fera stango, por funkciigi pumpilon.
5 Pendolo de ludaparato.
Chainy (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 15:47:09 Ngày 27 tháng 8 năm 2012
Simon Pure:Svingilo is not on that list. Which vortaro.net lists as:Yes, 'svingilo' covers quite a few things, but it doesn't seem like any of them would be translated as 'swing'.
svingilo. Ĉio, kio servas por svingi k nome:
1 Frapilo pendanta en sonorilo.
2 Pendolo de horloĝo.
3 Batilo de draŝilo.
4 Fera stango, por funkciigi pumpilon.
5 Pendolo de ludaparato.
1 Frapilo pendanta en sonorilo. = The beating device hanging in a bell (clapper)
2 Pendolo de horloĝo. = the pendulum of a clock
3 Batilo de draŝilo. = some part of a threshing machine, whatever that's called!
4 Fera stango, por funkciigi pumpilon. = An iron rod/bar used in a pump (presumably the 'piston' or 'plunger', or something along those lines, depending on the type of pump)
5 Pendolo de ludaparato. = the pendulum of the play-apparatus. This seems to refer to the specific part of the swing, i.e. the bit dangling down, at the end of which the seat is attached.
I have to admit, that the inclusion of number 5 can make things a bit confusing. I'm still having difficulty fixing in my mind the exact difference between 'balanci' and 'svingi'. The apparent overlap in meaning is the problem.
Another example that I found in vortaro.net:
"la ŝipo balanciĝis sur la maro" = The ship bobbed/rocked up and down on the sea
- There's no way you could replace 'balanciĝi' with 'svingiĝi' in the above sentence.
Chainy (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 15:58:47 Ngày 27 tháng 8 năm 2012
Chainy (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 16:19:42 Ngày 27 tháng 8 năm 2012
"la infanoj rigardas la gaje svingiĝantajn ruĝajn fiŝojn"
- swinging fish?!
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EDIT: I've now worked out the meaning of this. "Svingiĝi" is actually used in terms of the second definition of 'svingi' (= Forte streĉi la muskolojn, por ekĵeti ion antaŭen) - so the fish are not 'swinging', but energetically pushing themselves forward through the water.
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'Svingi' is clearly not directly translatable. The basic meaning of 'svingi' is:
Rapide k ripete moveti ion en aero tien k reen = to quickly and repeatedly move something slightly in the air backwards and forwards.
"Svingi la manon" = to wave, or at least something like that...
"svingi bastonon, la pugnon" - this is why Wells mentions the word 'brandish' in relation to 'svingi'.
"ĥorknaboj svingis arĝentan incensilojn" - The choir boys swung the silver thuribles.
Vortaro.net also gives two other definitions for svingi...