Messages: 60
Language: English
Vilius (User's profile) September 28, 2012, 12:00:21 PM
It's sort of chicken and egg problem - EU institutions cannot take a risk of taking such marginal ideas as Esperanto seriously, yet at the same time Esperanto remains marginal idea, because it's not taken seriously by the major institutions.
auxro (User's profile) September 28, 2012, 12:17:01 PM
robbkvasnak (User's profile) September 28, 2012, 2:35:44 PM
I watch German TV (Deutsche Welle) in which they often interview European politicians speaking English (even though some of them speak better German than English). As a native speaker, I have noticed that the biggest gap in their command of the English language is in pragmatics, the subject of how language is used. By not observing the rules of English pragmatics, the speakers sound either rude or poorly informed. I often just feel embarassed for them. They are making such fools of themselves in front of native speakers and they don't even realize it. I know that my fellow countrymen (and women) tend to be nationalistic - which I do not like. But when they talk about "Euro-English" in disdain, I have to agree with them. I regret to have to report that I have several times heard the expression "Euro-Trash" which I find repulsive and arrogant beyond words. But it is being said.
Oijos (User's profile) September 28, 2012, 4:26:13 PM
robbkvasnak:It is simply a question of economics. Right now, most people in the world still believe that the Anglo-American model of economics produces the most profits and so they buy into it and express this belief by speaking what they think is English.Are you suggesting that politicians from small EU countries should not give interviews unless they spoke near perfect English/German/French? And let the others (big countries) decide everything? They are trying their best to communicate!
I watch German TV (Deutsche Welle) in which they often interview European politicians speaking English (even though some of them speak better German than English). As a native speaker, I have noticed that the biggest gap in their command of the English language is in pragmatics, the subject of how language is used. By not observing the rules of English pragmatics, the speakers sound either rude or poorly informed. I often just feel embarassed for them. They are making such fools of themselves in front of native speakers and they don't even realize it. I know that my fellow countrymen (and women) tend to be nationalistic - which I do not like. But when they talk about "Euro-English" in disdain, I have to agree with them. I regret to have to report that I have several times heard the expression "Euro-Trash" which I find repulsive and arrogant beyond words. But it is being said.
Fenris_kcf (User's profile) September 28, 2012, 4:32:21 PM
robbkvasnak (User's profile) September 28, 2012, 4:36:25 PM
Oijos (User's profile) September 28, 2012, 4:58:40 PM
When BBC interviews Jyrki Katainen in Finnish? NEVER!!!
You are arrogant by saying that we should only speak Finnish.
Finland should leave EU.
efilzeo (User's profile) September 28, 2012, 6:06:18 PM
The EU politics is just about power and I am convinced about that because otherwise their actions would be very contradictory. They say they want more integration between Europeans but what are they doing to obtain it? What do I know about people from Estonia? Nothing! Are they doing something to make easier my comprehension of it? I don't think so. How can I feel at home in Europe if when I go to another country I don't have a clue of what people around me are saying? Say "we preferred diversity rather than uniformity" isn't something incredibly stupid and false? It's impossible to hold all the languages on the same level, so it's needed a common one, and I really don't understand why I should feel a retarded when I go to a museum in England and find every script in English, and when they come to my country they are even angry if I don't speak perfectly their language? Is this behavior creating more integration between us? Honestly to me it creates just more anger.
I also agree with "Robbkvasnak" when he says: "I often just feel embarassed for them. They are making such fools of themselves in front of native speakers and they don't even realize it." Now everyone around me try to act like if they were Americans of second league, they try to use English expressions because they think they are cool or modern but I find them extremely hick and empty. How sad is to go around and see people saying "lol", or use an English word instead of one of their mother tongue, like if they have no identity or personality at all, I cannot stand this thing. It is even worse when you say that to them and they treat you like you're a sort of anti-modernity person. Obviously politicians don't care about these things because they won't have a direct profit from it. The only thing we can do is going on, because noone national language will never become global according to me. When I listen a British and then an Australian their ways of talking seem completely different to me.
I would like to be European, but for now, I don't see any integration outside the transactions without taxes (Tobin tax help us).
robbkvasnak (User's profile) September 28, 2012, 6:33:54 PM
klnptrs78 (User's profile) September 28, 2012, 6:39:45 PM
I think seeing how the effort to make Latin everyone's language flopped, it's best to go about things diplomatically and let those cooperating use such languages when it seems like the best answer and otherwise not worry about it.
Learning a second languag fluently depends on a number of things: the need, the desire, and the aptitude. Then, even if we learn another langauge with a high proficiency as I learned Spanish, it doesn't necessarily mean that I get much of a chance to use it. Nowadays, I just talk socially with some nice coworkers who actually speak Che as their primary dialect.
I think everyone is making great points. From what I gather there are already some big divides on Esperanto. I ran into one big group in Europe that indicates that they have a special version of Esperanto and do not go along with the US version.
I think seeing how the effort to make Latin everyone's language flopped, it's best to go about things diplomatically and let those cooperating use such languages when it seems like the best answer and otherwise not worry about it.
Learning a second language fluently depends on a number of things: the need, the desire, and the aptitude. Then, even if we learn another language with a high proficiency as I learned Spanish, it doesn't necessarily mean that I get much of a chance to use it. Nowadays, I just talk socially with some nice coworkers who actually speak Che as their primary dialect.
There are few places that don't have a sort of fussy sub culture, and those that just aren't going to go beyond learning what the more minimally need to know to get along. I don't think we can avoid recognizing the humane nature of our world society. We just have to figure out how to live productively with each other. When fussy sort have language issues, there's no way, no how to get them to learn a 2nd language. They'll always see their own belly button as the center of the world. The other sort is well intentioned but they just generally don't have time to add on a 2nd language.
Esperanto can take about 200 highly interactive hours to get to a higher level of proficiency, and not the highest. (I'm still hanging around on the intermediate level myself as with this job situation, what free time do I really have to study as well as I could else wise?) Currently, I'm hoping I don't shrink down smaller than high school size as there's just no room to go in that direction, and I’m not really sure how to become a breatherian as an ordinary simple human being,
Well, this brings me to need. We do have common needs around the world. Could we have profiles of how Esperanto has solved problems? Maybe that would encourage some to help improve communication around the world, when Esperanto is the best hope.