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Multilingualism and Auxiliary Languages in the EU

door bartlett22183, 26 september 2012

Berichten: 60

Taal: English

Vilius (Profiel tonen) 28 september 2012 12:00:21

On the other hand you cannot blame the EU institutions for ignoring Esperanto. Just imagine what a wave of criticism they would get from the general public - it would be seen as yet another crazy initiative dreamt up by the eurocrats. Even the basic (and in my opinion justified) ban on incandescent light bulbs was too much for some in the EU.
It's sort of chicken and egg problem - EU institutions cannot take a risk of taking such marginal ideas as Esperanto seriously, yet at the same time Esperanto remains marginal idea, because it's not taken seriously by the major institutions.

auxro (Profiel tonen) 28 september 2012 12:17:01

Esperanto in EU seems a huge project, but on the other hand we have a valid Euro project. That one needed much of technical resources, sinchronising of financial systems, climbing over national ambitions, etc etc, too. I see some parallels between them two.

robbkvasnak (Profiel tonen) 28 september 2012 14:35:44

It is simply a question of economics. Right now, most people in the world still believe that the Anglo-American model of economics produces the most profits and so they buy into it and express this belief by speaking what they think is English.
I watch German TV (Deutsche Welle) in which they often interview European politicians speaking English (even though some of them speak better German than English). As a native speaker, I have noticed that the biggest gap in their command of the English language is in pragmatics, the subject of how language is used. By not observing the rules of English pragmatics, the speakers sound either rude or poorly informed. I often just feel embarassed for them. They are making such fools of themselves in front of native speakers and they don't even realize it. I know that my fellow countrymen (and women) tend to be nationalistic - which I do not like. But when they talk about "Euro-English" in disdain, I have to agree with them. I regret to have to report that I have several times heard the expression "Euro-Trash" which I find repulsive and arrogant beyond words. But it is being said.

Oijos (Profiel tonen) 28 september 2012 16:26:13

robbkvasnak:It is simply a question of economics. Right now, most people in the world still believe that the Anglo-American model of economics produces the most profits and so they buy into it and express this belief by speaking what they think is English.
I watch German TV (Deutsche Welle) in which they often interview European politicians speaking English (even though some of them speak better German than English). As a native speaker, I have noticed that the biggest gap in their command of the English language is in pragmatics, the subject of how language is used. By not observing the rules of English pragmatics, the speakers sound either rude or poorly informed. I often just feel embarassed for them. They are making such fools of themselves in front of native speakers and they don't even realize it. I know that my fellow countrymen (and women) tend to be nationalistic - which I do not like. But when they talk about "Euro-English" in disdain, I have to agree with them. I regret to have to report that I have several times heard the expression "Euro-Trash" which I find repulsive and arrogant beyond words. But it is being said.
Are you suggesting that politicians from small EU countries should not give interviews unless they spoke near perfect English/German/French? And let the others (big countries) decide everything? They are trying their best to communicate!

Fenris_kcf (Profiel tonen) 28 september 2012 16:32:21

Why shouldn't they give the interviews in their mother-tounge or a language they are comfortable in?

robbkvasnak (Profiel tonen) 28 september 2012 16:36:25

To the contrary!!!! I suggest that Dutch politicians speak Dutch and Italian politicians speak Italian. Supposedly the EU has interpreters for this. What a whammo if Borroso spoke Portuguese (a very beautiful language) or Reinfeldt spoke Swedish (also beautiful). If "language diversity" is really the motto of the EU, then, hey! go for it! Call'em out! Let'em put their money where their mouth is! I know that my ears would perk up! I totally agree with Fenris!

Oijos (Profiel tonen) 28 september 2012 16:58:40

You are not realistic. Of course they give their interviews to their national media in their native languages. But in addition, journalists from other countries interview them also. And if they refuse those interviews ---> less influence.

When BBC interviews Jyrki Katainen in Finnish? NEVER!!!

You are arrogant by saying that we should only speak Finnish.

Finland should leave EU.

efilzeo (Profiel tonen) 28 september 2012 18:06:18

I agree with those who think it is just an affair of economics, more precisely I would say it is a fact of power. I do not think that Esperanto would be a "big thing" to do, I do think the opposite. My father and my mother, with just 20 years more than me don't speak one word of English, I do speak it in an intermediate level I suppose and I do it despite it is a difficult language and when I speak my tongue is about to ask some mercy. How much easier is Esperanto than any other national language?! I think that in 3/4 years everyone would be fluent in it whereas with English unless you have a talent for languages you won't in an entire lifetime.
The EU politics is just about power and I am convinced about that because otherwise their actions would be very contradictory. They say they want more integration between Europeans but what are they doing to obtain it? What do I know about people from Estonia? Nothing! Are they doing something to make easier my comprehension of it? I don't think so. How can I feel at home in Europe if when I go to another country I don't have a clue of what people around me are saying? Say "we preferred diversity rather than uniformity" isn't something incredibly stupid and false? It's impossible to hold all the languages on the same level, so it's needed a common one, and I really don't understand why I should feel a retarded when I go to a museum in England and find every script in English, and when they come to my country they are even angry if I don't speak perfectly their language? Is this behavior creating more integration between us? Honestly to me it creates just more anger.
I also agree with "Robbkvasnak" when he says: "I often just feel embarassed for them. They are making such fools of themselves in front of native speakers and they don't even realize it." Now everyone around me try to act like if they were Americans of second league, they try to use English expressions because they think they are cool or modern but I find them extremely hick and empty. How sad is to go around and see people saying "lol", or use an English word instead of one of their mother tongue, like if they have no identity or personality at all, I cannot stand this thing. It is even worse when you say that to them and they treat you like you're a sort of anti-modernity person. Obviously politicians don't care about these things because they won't have a direct profit from it. The only thing we can do is going on, because noone national language will never become global according to me. When I listen a British and then an Australian their ways of talking seem completely different to me.

I would like to be European, but for now, I don't see any integration outside the transactions without taxes (Tobin tax help us).

robbkvasnak (Profiel tonen) 28 september 2012 18:33:54

So what does that say about the BBC and the English? Not very flattering if you ask me. Who is arrogant are those who demand that one speak their language. Not me, who says that you should be allowed to speak your own language.

klnptrs78 (Profiel tonen) 28 september 2012 18:39:45

I think everyone is making great points. From what I gather there are already some big divides on Esperanto. I ran into one big group in Europe that indicates that they have a special version of Esperanto and do not go along with the US version.

I think seeing how the effort to make Latin everyone's language flopped, it's best to go about things diplomatically and let those cooperating use such languages when it seems like the best answer and otherwise not worry about it.

Learning a second languag fluently depends on a number of things: the need, the desire, and the aptitude. Then, even if we learn another langauge with a high proficiency as I learned Spanish, it doesn't necessarily mean that I get much of a chance to use it. Nowadays, I just talk socially with some nice coworkers who actually speak Che as their primary dialect.
I think everyone is making great points. From what I gather there are already some big divides on Esperanto. I ran into one big group in Europe that indicates that they have a special version of Esperanto and do not go along with the US version.

I think seeing how the effort to make Latin everyone's language flopped, it's best to go about things diplomatically and let those cooperating use such languages when it seems like the best answer and otherwise not worry about it.

Learning a second language fluently depends on a number of things: the need, the desire, and the aptitude. Then, even if we learn another language with a high proficiency as I learned Spanish, it doesn't necessarily mean that I get much of a chance to use it. Nowadays, I just talk socially with some nice coworkers who actually speak Che as their primary dialect.

There are few places that don't have a sort of fussy sub culture, and those that just aren't going to go beyond learning what the more minimally need to know to get along. I don't think we can avoid recognizing the humane nature of our world society. We just have to figure out how to live productively with each other. When fussy sort have language issues, there's no way, no how to get them to learn a 2nd language. They'll always see their own belly button as the center of the world. The other sort is well intentioned but they just generally don't have time to add on a 2nd language.

Esperanto can take about 200 highly interactive hours to get to a higher level of proficiency, and not the highest. (I'm still hanging around on the intermediate level myself as with this job situation, what free time do I really have to study as well as I could else wise?) Currently, I'm hoping I don't shrink down smaller than high school size as there's just no room to go in that direction, and I’m not really sure how to become a breatherian as an ordinary simple human being, 

Well, this brings me to need. We do have common needs around the world. Could we have profiles of how Esperanto has solved problems? Maybe that would encourage some to help improve communication around the world, when Esperanto is the best hope.

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