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reference to a previous noun

door Ganove, 10 oktober 2012

Berichten: 15

Taal: English

Ganove (Profiel tonen) 10 oktober 2012 14:21:40

How do I express a reference to a previous noun in Esperanto?

Is there a pronoun like the English 'one' in 'She sees a /the blue car and he sees a/the red one.'
or is it like in German without any pronoun 'Ŝi vidas bluan aŭton kaj li vidas (la) ruĝan.' or is it completely different?

Thanks for your help.

Ganove (Profiel tonen) 10 oktober 2012 15:44:26

Thanks. And can I also drop the second verb and reference to the previous one like in an elliptical construction 'She sees a(/the) blue car and he a(/the) red one.' 'Ŝi vidas bluan aŭton kaj li (la) ruĝan' ?

darkweasel (Profiel tonen) 10 oktober 2012 16:39:12

Ganove:Thanks. And can I also drop the second verb and reference to the previous one like in an elliptical construction 'She sees a(/the) blue car and he a(/the) red one.' 'Ŝi vidas bluan aŭton kaj li (la) ruĝan' ?
Yes.

Roberto12 (Profiel tonen) 14 oktober 2012 18:59:57

I find the issue of "one" interesting. It seems to me that the Esperanto word unu is emphatic (maybe Zamenhof made it bi-syllabic to discourage its usage as an indefinite article) in a way that other numbers are not. This situation doesn't really cause any problems because of the singular/plural distinction across the nouns and adjectives as a whole, but I sometimes feel a pinch when there's no adjectival qualification. A good example is Neo from The Matrix, who's known as "the one". If there were two people who were referred to as "the two", then the Esperanto translation would simply be la du, but because of the emphaticness of unu, instead of Neo being la unu, he is called instead (according to Vikipedio) tiu, i.e. "that one". As a native English speaker I find this a wee bit poor, and as an ex-Volapükan I can't help but think of the Volapük translation ("utan" ) which literally means "the one (who...)". Of course, the Esperanto version does work, it's just that it doesn't match up perfectly to the original English.

hebda999 (Profiel tonen) 14 oktober 2012 19:52:11

Roberto12:Of course, the Esperanto version does work, it's just that it doesn't match up perfectly to the original English.
Esperanto is not English, so it doesn't have to match up perfectly to it. "Unu" in Esperanto is not the same as "one" in English, which is known to have many coloured meanings ("The one" is one of them). "Tiu" is fine - you can use capital first letter to emphasize it.

For instance, in Polish "the one" in Matrix was translated as "wybraniec" (the chosen one - "one" again!!!), and not as "ten jeden/jedyny" (the one).

sudanglo (Profiel tonen) 15 oktober 2012 10:12:04

Not having seen the Matrix films, execept in short snippets, I am not sure of the nuance being expressed.

Perhaps the hero is la ununura or la unusola. Perhaps he is la atendito or la elektito.

It is not possible to interpret 'he/she's the one' without context.

I can't think. off the cuff, when you might say 'la unu'.

I'll take the red one is mi prenos la ruĝan. I'll take a red one is Mi prenos (unu) ruĝan

Bemused (Profiel tonen) 15 oktober 2012 13:12:21

sudanglo:Not having seen the Matrix films, execept in short snippets, I am not sure of the nuance being expressed.
It is not possible to interpret 'he/she's the one' without context.
For context consider a quasi religious connotation, similar to "the chosen one".
The story was that "one" would come who would be able to bend "reality" at will, for example defying gravity, or stopping bullets in mid flight by the power of mind.
Neo was "the one".

Timtim (Profiel tonen) 16 oktober 2012 21:46:14

sudanglo:I can't think. off the cuff, when you might say 'la unu'.
No, me neither, Terry. To my mind there's always something to be appended according to the sense, be they your previous examples (ununura, unusola) or Esperanto's usual endings.

On the basis that a twosome, a duo, would be a duopo I suppose we could add unuopo to your list.

sudanglo (Profiel tonen) 18 oktober 2012 10:56:56

Please translate:

- The code is 0189.
- I'm not falling for that.
- What do you mean?
- I saw you putting superglue on the '1'.

Hyperboreus (Profiel tonen) 22 oktober 2012 05:12:53

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