Meldinger: 15
Språk: English
darkweasel (Å vise profilen) 2012 10 21 07:31:25
Fenris_kcf:Sure, I am aware of this. It was the thread opener's translation that I failed to understand.darkweasel:Mi ne povas ne fali is a valid sentence but I still do not understand this either in English or in Esperanto.'ne ne fari' = 'fari'
'povi ne fari' = 'ne devi fari'
Kaj tial:
'Mi ne povas ne fali' = 'Mi devas fali'
Fenris_kcf (Å vise profilen) 2012 10 21 08:59:25
erinja:Translate your messages into English, please.Sorry, i totally forgot that i'm in the English forum. But it's quite hard to talk about that subject using the English language, since it has a strange matter dealing with modalverbs and negations. For instance in the sentence ...
"He must not eat this."
... the negation refers to the fullverb "to eat" and so this actually means "He shall do the following: not eat this." or - less literally: "He is not allowed to eat this." while the negation in ...
"He can not eat this."
... refers to the modalverb "to can", so that the sentence means "He is not able to do the following: eat this.".
Totally messed up, isn't it?
acdibble (Å vise profilen) 2012 10 21 09:08:45
Fenris_kcf:... refers to the modalverb "to can", so that the sentence means "He is not able to do the following: eat this.".I cannot go. = I am unable to go.
I can not go. = I am able not to go.
Fenris_kcf (Å vise profilen) 2012 10 21 11:01:55
acdibble:Oh, OK. I didn't know about that difference. Are the two forms "cannot" and "can not" also differently spoken?Fenris_kcf:... refers to the modalverb "to can", so that the sentence means "He is not able to do the following: eat this.".I cannot go. = I am unable to go.
I can not go. = I am able not to go.
Bemused (Å vise profilen) 2012 10 21 12:56:01
Fenris_kcf:The "a" becomes a neutral sound in "cannot". The more common version of the phrase would be "I can't".acdibble:Oh, OK. I didn't know about that difference. Are the two forms "cannot" and "can not" also differently spoken?Fenris_kcf:... refers to the modalverb "to can", so that the sentence means "He is not able to do the following: eat this.".I cannot go. = I am unable to go.
I can not go. = I am able not to go.
The "n" lasts for slightly longer in "can not", although the two words are run together and not pronounced as two separate words.
Sorry, I am not (I'm not) a linguist so cannot (can't) describe the difference any other way.
When spoken the difference is immediately obvious to a native English speaker.
Just another verbal land mine awaiting the non native English speaker.
Yet another reason why English is NOT suited to be a universal second language.